There has been much discussion recently about freedom of speech and an individual’s right to say or write whatever he or she wants – unfettered; unedited – just ‘let it all hang out’. We Americans are endowed with a multitude of rights, and it seems new ones are being invented daily. Many of our rights center around the First Amendment, which today has become one of the most expansive amendments to our constitution, to the point that some people think they can say, write, publish or post most anything they wish with absolute impunity. Well, legally that’s pretty close to the truth. It’s extremely difficult to prove the “actual malice” requirement for libel; pornography and obscenity abound; our society is becoming coarser in its language and behavior. “It’s my right!”; It’s our right!”; “We know our rights!” – Well-worn phrases in a large part of our society.
We don’t want to forget that we do have those many rights. But I’d like to discuss the other side of the coin as well. During my Navy days (which are beginning to seem far off now) we were in the throes of the civil rights awakening in the United States. One of the many educational workshops the Navy conducted was entitled “Rights and Responsibilities”. The first part of the workshop discussed the many rights we Americans are born with. Blessed with. Many of us puffed with pride at the affirmation of all the wonderful protections our Constitution afforded us in our daily lives, regardless of race, color, creed or religion.
Then came the second part, where we discussed the responsibilities that went along with all those rights. Responsibility of the government to enact laws protecting the rights established by the Constitution and its Amendments. But more importantly, our responsibility as individuals to ensure we not only understand our rights, but understand and maintain those same rights for others. To do what we could to promote Duty, Honor, Obedience, Tolerance, Understanding, Deference, and Respect for others. That’s the hard part.
Our Rights don’t stand alone. With them come even greater responsibilities to ensure that, in exercising our rights, we don’t trample on the rights of others – that we exercise our rights responsibly; that we’re mindful of the hurt or damage we can cause when our principal concern is our “right” to do or say something. We don’t exist in a vacuum. The Golden Rule – “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, is still a valid philosophy of life. I would encourage all of us to think about Rights and Responsibilities here and in our daily relationships with others. Can’t hurt. Might make things better.
Best wishes to all as Hurricane Ike makes its way toward the Gulf
Sally, good idea. And it seems like my experience is catching on.
Sally, generally speaking, people cease to respect authority when that authority becomes unrespectable. That happened in this nation in the 1960′s. It had previously happened here in about 1776.
Next time when you are writing something that is meant to solve the world problems, type it in Word and copy it here. Then if you goof it up, you’ll still have the original. I feel better now that you and Ben feel better.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda covers a lot of ground!
Thanks Ben, you would have loved it.
I feel better, too!
I can’t believe it. I poured out my heart and mind on a terribly lengthy comment – and screwed up submitting it. I can’t do it again – but it was pretty cathartic for me. I solved many, but not all the world’s problems.
Amen to all that. I don’t know what happened, except I pretty much blame everything on the 60s and 70s when people started questioning authority, police, government, the Pope.
And I believe some of that was necessary.I was too busy raising a family to get involved at that time, but I’ve never been one to keep my thoughts to myself. If someone tells me I’m wrong, I don’t like it, but I either keep thinking my thoughts are right or I adjust my thinking, depending on the circumstances. Television was a great invention, but I believe it and the movies have done a lot to undermine our morality. Kids think it’s OK to jump in bed with the first person you take a liking to. It’s OK to use foul language. They don’t even think it’s foul any more. I’m not saying we haven’t used some of the words, but they aren’t regular parts of our sentence structure. Walking around with your rear end hanging out or with skirts and tops that leave nothing to the imagination is not my idea of “style”. Yes, I have the right to stand up for what I believe, but I can do it in a civilized way. Don’t they even know about Mahatma Gandhi or Martin Luther King? Are law enforcement officers so afraid of protestors that they feel obliged to lash out even when it’s not necessary? I don’t expect to solve all the problems of the world any more, but I hope there are others that can do something to get us back on track. These are just some of my thoughts as I read some of the other postings. I agree the Golden Rule should still work. Are they still teaching it?
Most view free speech as foundational in our western world. I really don’t have a problem with that. Even so, I’ve often wondered if there is a concomitant right of free hearing. We’ve all heard the old saw about ones right to swing ones fist stops short of my nose. Well, does ones right to freely scream obscenities stop just short of my hearing? If that isn’t the case, it should be.
Barbara, thanks for your comment and I believe that’s what this post is all about, the freedom to speak our minds without being attacked for our opinions.
Most of us have different life maps where we have experienced similar issues but from different perspectives. The beauty for me is that occasionally someone comes along whose perspective is different than mine and their message, opinion, will allow me to rethink, reroute and enhance my journey.
I hope you will continue to give your perspective since it appears that you have a lot of experience that will help us all to grow.
Sandra
Barbara, I wish you would reconsider that. I believe you have made a very positive contribution to the blog and to its diversity of viewpoints. I agree that many of our children as well as our adults lack a strong moral compass. I believe that can only come from their homes as well as their churches. We have many examples from history that establish that it is possible for that compass to originate entirely in the home. Many of today’s home schooled are continuing examples of that principle. Regrettably many children of today lack any source of training or example of true right or wrong. Peer pressure is more frequently than not a negative influence.
My recent comments seem to have been misinterpreted by many to have said that I did not agree with any of Mr. Junkins’ positions. That is not the case. My concern was that the outbreak of unlawful behavior by a few had been used to justify disproportionate police action against peaceful demonstrators and members of the media.
I have been in some similar demonstrations years ago when the “public servants” seemed to go beserk and become the enemy. It eventually led to wide spread battles in the streets and I would hate to see that become the case again… but it could. I was in Birmingham in 1963. I saw the fire hoses and the dogs being used against otherwise peaceful demonstrators. I was pushed off the sidewalks by Martin Luther King’s body guard’s during mid day marches in downtown Birmingham when I refused to yield right of way. I saw myself as the offended party then. Now I realize that people, any people, can only be pushed just so far.
Barbara, I’m at work and can’t respond right now but I would like to reply when I get home. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
It really wouldn’t be fair to go off in another direction, but my personal belief is htat when children (beginning in 3rd and 4th grade) are taught about safe sex not only as the responsibility of their actions not been perperly taught and the ramifications on the country as a whole, but it also has siad to these children that sex is right (at their age) and that used to be a wrong. There are schools all over this country that have removed American holidays and deliberately add holidays that are not of this country. True we are a nation of diversity, but we are a soverein nation with its own ideals and traditions. Colleges are comprised of professors with personal agendas and young eager minds just waiting to soak it all up. But where in the colleges of today are the studens taught of their heritage (American). Where in today’s colleges are students taught responsibility (drinking beyond common sense) and where are today’s youth being taught about their country’s Christian backgroud and what brought people to this contry to begin with. But enough, I know I will be attacked for some of the things I have said, but it’s still my right to say them and believe in them. I do not condemn those who do not see my point of view but I do expect them to respect it. And this is the last for me. It would be nice to see positive things happening where I live just like everyone else would. I’ll read cc from time to time but I’m finished with blogging.
Ron, appreciate your opinion and I’m sorry if I misinterpreted one of your statements.
Well said Barbara.
Can you expound on “The youth of today is not learning the positive attributes of their country nor the responsibility of citizenship. Right has become wrong. Good has become bad”?
Dave, shouting is okay (ALL CAPS) but just don’t throw a brick through my window or set fire to my trash? Pulleeese?
Everyone must be responsible for what they say. How many times have we seen people accused of crimes, tried in the media long before a trial takes place, attack supporters of the accused and then when the formal trial is over are disappointed as to one’s guilt or innocence. The old saying of believe half of what you see and nothing of what you read still prevails. The ability to speak freely to one’s ideas or opinions is a right given to us by the founders of this great nation. How many; did it take to draft the framework? Did they all have the same mindset or opinions; I don’t think so. But they came together for the benefit of what they were trying to achieve.
Our soldiers have always followed what the beauracrates have sent them to do all over the world. I do not believe for a moment that they would have chosen their fate based on personal opinon but for the of their country. There is a movement afoot to change history, especially this country’s part in it. The youth of today is not learning the positive attributes of their country nor the responsibility of citizenship. Right has become wrong. Good has become bad.
Spanish Cove is a microcosum (spelling) of this great nation. What we do here as a community has been and must continue to be a reflection of this great nation. We must becareful about creating so many rules it’s hard to breathe, or stepping on other people’s rights to express themselves.
Beautiffuly said, Dave. You took the time and expended the energy required to express a number of things that I wanted to say but you probably said them in a better fashion.
I usually make the mistake of assuming that almost anyone has to be aware of these factual matters. History has proven over and over that they are factual matters. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat its mistakes, a paraphrase.
I don’t believe you were advocating that anyone has the right to destroy anyone’s property or do them harm without paying the consequences any more than I was. Some chose to read that into my statements and that is their privilege.
Many times in the history of our country various groups have chosen to use such circumstances to deny others of their rights. The federal government has on occasion created their own justification to attack other groups and governments. Jackson in south Alabama , Florida, the Trail of Tears, the battleship Maine in Havana harbor and many more recent acts come to mind.
Dick, allow me to disagree with you concerning losing some of our individual rights. Who is to decide which rights. Loses start here and continue and continue. I did not object when I was told that my kids had to wear helmets when they rode their bikes, nor when I was told I had to wear a seat belt in my car. However in both cases I did lose rights. Maybe next I will not be allowed to wear shorts when the temperature is under 72 degrees, after all I may catch cold and medicare will have to pay for my doctors bill. Our loses, in my opinion, have proceeded well past that level. Now “Unkie” has the right to listen in to my telephone calls, read my e-mail, and get records of my internet conversations. Yes, I do realize that the “bad guys” can use these methods of communications to plan to hurt us, but who are the bad guys. One day I might be the bad guy, in some ones mind, because I am advocating that we have government take over and or control Perdido Bay Sewer Company. Oh my, God forbid. Yes, we have responsibility to act responsibly and to respect each other. This I believe is where our moral fiber has decayed. Months ago, in this very blog, people were objecting strongly when someone suggested that it was their responsibility to report when someone was doing something not permitted by the Covenants or rules they agreed to when the bought property in The Cove. Were they not failing to be responsible? But there again, I do not want to live in a society where I am afraid to say what I think because my neighbor might be a member of the CRN (Citizen Reporting Network). We need guidelines, but most important, WE NEED OUR INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AS AMERICANS PROTECTED. Even our Government and most of all our Leaders have the responsibility to act responsibly to protect our freedoms, including the individuals right to chose. Government is wrong to remove God from anything, each of us individually have the right to believe or not believe. A non believer has a right to not believe, but does not have the right to tell me I can not believe, or that our society can not believe. WE NEED OUR INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AS AMERICANS PROTECTED at least as much as we need protection of our lives from harm.
ALL: I did not say anything about the military brainwashing recruits. I to have a father who served with honor in WWII. My Niece is in the Navy and on track to be a Lt. Commander next spring. What I meant and again this goes to mind set reading something different into a statement, is that the military retrains its troops for its agenda. There is nothing sinister about that. Bult when these military leave the service of their country and have to undergo the re-learning of how life on the outside is it can be disappointing to say th eleast. The code of conduct is what the military lives by but as a society we have no such ideals. It’s a shame. The ten commandments which have come under fire for a long time should be what we live by. It could be a much better world.
All: I believe my time in the military did modify my thinking, and in many ways. I don’t believe that I was “brainwashed” by fear and false patriotism, but I do know that I was exposed to things that shaped my thinking for the rest of my life. I served directly with thousands of people who placed the comfort, safety, security and future of their country and fellow citizens above their own; who swore and lived an oath of service to their country and defense of its Constitution. I saw first hand how a large part of the world lives, and gained a singular appreciation for all the wondrous things this country has to offer. This IS the greatest country in the world, and it’s in danger of losing its greatness. Each of us has a responsibility (see how that word keeps popping up in my vocabulary?) to ensure that we don’t allow this nation to fail. If curbing a few of our ever-burgeoning rights in favor of increased sacrifice and personal responsibility allows this country to survive a bit longer, I’m all for it. The ACLU probably had a good idea when they started, but how in the world did we get to crucifixes in urine, partial birth abortion and removing God from everything?
I’ll get off my soapbox now. Don’t want this to turn into a political diatribe.
Watch out for the “bloody” and “bugger”!
Sandra, you maintain such an even temperament it is incredible. I haven’t seen you lose your cool yet.
Dick, my son-in-law just got out of war school and is now a commander in Albuquerque, NM. Jeff began in the Army and later moved to the Airforce. My daughter was also in the Airforce. I never new much about the military before and was just as suspicious as Barbara. I thought that the military brainwashed recruits. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Air Force gave my daughter more confidence than she ever had, she’s travelled all over he world and she says whatever is on her mind – definitely no brain washing there. My son-in-law received his Masters degree from the Airforce and when I visited him in Montgomery we’d disuss many things including what he was learning in school. They gave Jeff a wonderful education which included critical thinking, International relations and communications. I’ve met their friends who are exactly the same way – just regular hard working people who live life just like we do and have their ups and downs just like everyone else.
Barbara I appreciate your generally supportive and complimentary comment. I would assume that you would categorize yourself politically as an independent.
I placed myself in that category for most of my life. Looking back I probably voted for the republican candidate at least sixty percent of the time for most years of my life. The events and circumstances of the last eight years have converted me to the status of “yellow dog” Democrat.
Mr. Junkins my family had several lifers in the military. I will not enumerate their accomplishments for the sake of modesty. My father volunteered when he was seventeen and finally served in the horse cavalry in Hawai largely headquartered at Schofield Baracks where he and others were attached to an infantry unit. Strangely the native Hawaians resented our stealing their land. The cavalry was an effective tool used in opposing them. Later my father was drafted into the Army only a short time before the war in Europe ended. He was still forced to serve a complete hitch in Italy. I am not going to be overly detailed, but for a time he was cadre and served as a DI. When I was offerred the Coast Guard academy he counseled me to avoid anything military.
I am not anti-military but patriotism and fear have been used so frequently in recent years to influence the citizenry that I oppose anything that smacks of that method of operation. The worst victims of recent years have been those serving in the military. So many of the orders to our military have not been “lawful” orders.
Anarchy has a major difficulty going anywhere because no one will follow – just gripe.
Dick, just to let you know you have at least one person who supports your position 100%. I was raised a Democrat, moved to Independent when the Dems had control of Congress for too long a time and got carried away (couldn’t find it in my heart or mind to go all the way to Republican). Since Gingrich and the Neo-Cons I am back in the Democratic Party. I won’t vote for a Republican for dogcatcher. Now Ron may have single-handedly move me back to Independent.
Here’s an article from the Denver Post regarding the demonstrations and anarchist activities:
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10356426?source=bb
Woops Ben was using my computer and placed the above comment in the wrong place – it belongs under ‘Happy Hour’.
Good idea! It will then be a “regular” event that folks can plan for.
Ron & Barbara: “When in the military the government retrains one’s thinking to support its agenda.” “…commingling the Constitution with the Uniform Code of Military Justice to imply justification by “patriotism” I find it to be totally (repugnant).”
Do I detect some anti-military bias here? Being in or having been in the military doesn’t result in monolithic thinking. I believe you’ll find a variety of viewpoints and attitudes about politics and current events throughout our military. They don’t remove your brain when you join. But yes, Barbara, they do retrain their personnel, stressing obedience, conformity, rules and military law, without which no military can exist. They don’t expect a debate or a protest when lawful orders are issued. In the heat of battle, our young men and women must react as they have been trained. The training and the lifestyle likely influence their thinking, and they may carry some of their experiences into later adulthood, but again, you’ll find many differing ideas and viewpoints in present and former military personnel. And you’ll also likely find more people among them who understand the link between Rights and Responsibilities.
I didn’t have a lot of luck on FactCheck at least. It did serve to remind me that the DNC had been in Denver, Colorado instead of Phoenix, Arizona as I had previously stated.
My geography gets a little vague on those square states, actually on most things west of the Mississippi and north of the Ohio.
Good idea, so will I.
Sandra,
As you said the “wrong doers” should have sufferred the consequences of their actions. The other peaceful demonstrators and the press, especially the womwen, should not have been victimized by the police. I wasn’t there obviously but the situation I heard and saw portrayed was in interviews with major network reporters. Would you mind stating where you checked the taped accounts? You obviously did not see the same things I did.
Remember our government has done their own brand of spin management for centuries. They successfully portrayed Custer and his men as the “Good Guys” for a long time. As has been said when the whites won it was a victory but when the indians won it was a massacre. I don’t believe this is over. I hope there will be a congressional investigation. I think I will see what FactCheck.com and Snopes have to say.
Ron, last night I checked on the so called abuse of the demonstrators and found, much to my dismay, a video that showed a policeman arriving in his police car, a demonstrator hitting him from behind, knocking him to the pavement and it was only then, after he got up, that he began to use his pepper spray.
Apparently, the RNC Welcoming Committee, a self described splinter group, planned to create problems for over a year before the demonstration and threw benches into the streets, broke windows and broke windows in several cop cars Even the peaceful demonstrators said that the splinter group did them a disservice.
The area in question (down town) was secured by the Secret Service for the RNC. Several demonstrators who tried to enter a security zone were arrested. Other people, who demonstrated peacefully, were asked to disburse when everything started to heat up.
It’s a very complex subject and can’t be handled in a couple of comments but, if I intend to do harm to another person or community, knowing that I’m breaking the law and / or placing others in danger I can expect to pay the price.
I am not a republican nor am I a democrat. I am an american who believes in our constituion. I do not fully agree with some legal interpretations of our laws either by the Supreme Court. What I believe in is that our right to dissent against what we perceive to be wrongs. Why do people go out on strike, because words have failed. Why do people protest with marches, because words have failed. When in the military the government retrains one’s thinking to support its agenda. I believe we are a country of laws and that rights and responsibilities should prevail, but where do we fit in misconstrue, manipulate, or the new word “untruths” Personality issues always come to the forefront when people have differing points of view and that’s too bad. What we need to remember is that we are a country under God, who stands for truth, integrity and the right to pursue happiness. Ron, I congratulate you and your wisdom. To be locked into a single mindset is to hamper our freedoms and our rights.
Obviously you did not agree to give up your right to misconstrue and misrepresent the statements of others. You are as well not accurately portraying the events as they occurred according to the news coverage I saw.
The rights conveyed by the Constitution and its amendments have been well defined by various Supreme Courts. I don’t agree with all of them but that is the sole purpose of the court. What you or I disagree with is of little importance.
Their decisions are the law of the land.
The police were throwing the national news representives, many of them women, to the ground and putting their knees in their backs while cuffing them and ripping their PRESS ID’s from their necks. All the while they were screaming, “Press!” These were reporters not demonstrators.
The demonstrations took place at both conventions and they were protesting things much more important than broken windows. They were protesting the horrors committed against our the nation during the last eight years when both parties contributed to the travesties.
Do you watch a lot of Rupert Murdoch TV, maybe?
It takes a long jump in interpretation to believe (as others besides Ron do) that freedom of speech includes breaking windows and in any other way destroying other people’s property. Once again the liberals accept the rights part but throw out the responsibility. I was taught at an early age that my rights stopped where the next person’s began. We would be better off if we would return to this way of thinking. We could cut out about 75% of rules in this country if we would think about our neighbors and their property first. That was no demonstration at the convention, it came closer to anarchy.
Poor vision, virtually nonexistent keyboard skills, vestigial remnants of dyslexia and arthritis in my hands lead me to make frequent typographical errors. I should be more careful, for that I apologise. I also wasn’t aware I was communicating with someone who spoke ebonics.
For me anytime someone advocates the denial of Constitutionally guaranteed rights to any or all our population under the veil of advocacy of preservation of other’s rights and worst of all by commingling the Constitution with the Uniform Code of Military Justice to imply justification by “patriotism” I find it to be totally repugnicant.
But I absolutely and without qualification concur that we will have to agree to disagree… for which I am proud and grateful.
When “public servants” abandon that role and attack those they pretend to serve they lose any right to that title.
Dang! Guess I hit a nerve or two there, Ron. I also guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. There are many areas where liberal and conservative viewpoints will never converge. This is obviously one of them. But again, you’re making my point for me – the exercise of rights carries with it the burden of personal responsibility. Yes, the police were on high alert. In some cases they may have over-reacted. But the conventions were declared special security zones and anything that even hinted at violence had to be dealt with quickly and firmly. And it was. I’m thankful that no one was killed or seriously hurt (especially our public servants), no buildings blown up and property damage was at least contained.
And what’s with the Freudian slip? “mo’ spin” ?
The First Amendment guarantees the right to assemble and demonstrate and to didtribute leaflets. In most cases the demonstrators even had permits. In the absolute worst cases some windows were broken but only after the police had fired tear gas and other things.
I wasn’t aware you had been there or that you owned property in either location. I also wasn’t aware that the Constitution conveyed its rights only to non-liberals. I believe almost all your characterizations to be mischaracterizations. But I also believe you have the right to express them. A lot of Americans have fought and bled to guarantee you those rights, I believe the most recent of them were demonstrating in Phoenix and St. Paul. Without the free press none of us would have any rights.
Actual, real, unbiased truth. With mo spin.
Ron: I’m not sure I’m in agreement with the “preemptive strikes” on the part of the authorities, especially if unnecessary force is involved. However, for those idiots that thought their rights included the wanton destruction of someone else’s property, I have no problem with using whatever force is necessary to cease that behavior. It goes back to the basic “Rights & Responsibilities” issue. When your rights (to protest) trample on my rights (to own and protect my property) I expect the authorities to intercede on my behalf.
It seems today that the most prevalent form of protest entails destroying someone’s property. Sadly, it’s also our youth and those of the so-called “liberal” persuasion who seem to be bent on doing the destroying.
As for the press, they do end up in the middle of it, mainly because these kinds of anarchistic activities are considered “news” – “If it bleeds, it leads”. In some cases, they even instigate and encourage it with their presence. Not saying they shouldn’t be there, but would all this happen if they weren’t? “If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it…”
Hard truth.
Dick, did you see any of the coverage about the abuses of those constitutional rights when demonstrators at both the DNC and The RNC were assaulted by the police both in Arizona and Minnesota? They abused the representatives of the press as well as the demonstrators with some from each group requiring hospitalization and medical treatment when they finally gained release.
They even participated in what they characterized as “preemptive strikes” against the various groups as well as the press that was covering them prior to the demonstrations.
I believe it would be difficult to convince those people that the governmental agencies they dealt with had abided by the principle you stated. I agree with those principles but if our own various governmental agencies do not abide by them how can anyone expect the individual citizens to do so?
It isn’t over, as I understand it various national press organizations plan law suits. I wish them good fortune in their efforts. I just don’t choose to approve police state actions… by anyone.