No, Mr. Wade, I don’t believe you have the rights you claim. Individual salaries are confidential and I believe they should remain that way. You are able to see the complete books, and you can question any expenses you believe are out of line or require additional explanation. But you should not assume “rights” you don’t posess. Occasionally the Board of a corporation may disclose the salaries and benefits of its senior executives, and that’s a decision of the Board, not the shareholders. But you’ll never see that same Board allow unauthorized individuals to see what each employee of the corporation makes. Let’s be realistic, and also repect the privacy of individuals who work for the Cove.
As for the Board approving or disapproving who runs for open positions each year, you may be confused on that point. The Elections Committee reveives nominations for election and reviews them, only to ensure that candidates are eligible as property owners. You may be thinking of Appointments to vacant positions in between annual elections. In those cases, when a vacancy occurs, the Chairman of the Board is allowed to nominate prospective appointees to complete the term of the vacated position, Nominees are then accepted or rejected by a vote of the Board.
I do believe salary’s are confidential, however, as a owner of property in the Cove and a member of POASC, I have the right to see the complete books at any time!!!. I am not saying that we should send out a notice to everyone telling salary’s but everyone does have the right to see the books and judge for themselves.
As stated in my post, when fee’s are being increased we all need to see where every penny is being spent including individual salary’s and proposed raises and benefits.
As for my salary no one in my company had the right, as we were a closed corporation and only owners were privileged to that information. Clients did pay for our services and received a fair price for services rendered. I do not believe that I qualify as a Client of POASC. therefore I have the right to see the complete information.
As for the Board, I do not feel that the Board has the right to approve or disapprove of who can run for the position as long as the member is in good standing and up to date. Therefore I choose not to run as I believe it is the POASC members who should make the decision by voting. rather than a small group of Board members choosing who can run.
I don’t believe individual salaries should be published to the membership. In your business, I doubt that you did that sort of thing or anything similar to it. Your customers paid your salaries, but you surely didn’t disclose private information to them, especially at the salary level. Here in the Cove, we have much greater openness in financial disclosure, but salaries and wage rates are a special category. Even with Government contracts, where a third party is directly paying personnel salaries, only a select few in the Governemt are privy to that information. Personal privacy and dignity has value, too. I’m surprised that someone with your background would think the Cove should disclose that information
We know what the total cost is; we know how many employees we have. You can figure an average cost per employee if you wish. If you want to know more, you may wish to consider joining the Board of Directors.
I would like for someone to tell me where in the Bylaws it says Individual salaries are confidential according to the Bylaws. As owners I believe that we all have the right to see in detail our complete books.
As for the $12 increase. I realize that expenses rise being a retired CEO of a $35 million dollar company. I would have lost clients and probably my job if I raised our prices 150%+ and had not reduce my budget to meet the times even if personnel had to be reduced and projects delayed. With the economy being in the shape it is and people struggling should we not put further pressure on individuals and table the increase for the year?
Just because the Bylaws allow an increase it does not mean we have to continually increase every year. Also, what was the population in 1999 of the Cove and now? I believe we will see that our fees have increased more than 150% due to increase in population.
I see we spent $300k for Ivan damage, did we not get reimbursed (Insurance,FEMA) for any of that money?
You didn’t see, Pat, and neither did most of the economists. However, many of the items you list were accomplished way before anyone saw the economic problems we now face. While I’m sure some of the items could have been delayed had we had second sight, some of them were needed. I’m not sure about the pool attendant, but I believe we have had full-time coverage at the pool for some time. Some of them double in maintenance, I believe. Guard rails were installed as safety items, as the wooden “fence” was not in good shape. The new drive-by bulletin boards were purchased with ad revenue from the phone directory that was produced by volunteers. The clubhouse bathrooms and the clubhouse renovations were completed in July 2007. If you attend board meetings you know how much a new sound system was needed, however not knowing the cost, I can only assume a less expensive one could have been found, although cheaper ones in the past didn’t fare too well. The new fob system and office remodeling could have waited, I suppose. The security system you mention I assume is the in-house security. By starting it this year, we will realize an estimated $21,000 in savings next year (2009-2010). I personally thought a more fuel-efficient vehicle could have been found, but I didn’t have a vote. I understand your concern, Pat, but all those projects were begun before the craziness in September. Could the board have done a better job? Maybe, but you take all the information you have at a given time and make decisions. You win some; you lose some. Fortunately over the past 16 or 17 years, the boards have been right many more times that they were wrong, or shall I say, incorrect? Right now we can give our “wise counsel” at the Budget Meeting on Jan. 8 and pray that the right decisions are made by the only people who can make them, the POASC Board of Directors. Even the top-notch economists disagree on how to handle the money mess in Washington. I guess it will be the same here.
It is obvious that your expenses and those of others who are much more needy fall well below very arbitrary needs assigned by some with such discression at the cove.
Funding to social organizations in our governments have been cut at unprecedented rates and levels during the last eight years.
Those among us who obviously feel little if any compassion can be laying helpless tomorrow as the result of one stroke. There but for the grace of God go I. Our current recession/depression will give us many even more difficult choices in the near future. All the economists including the recipient of the most recent Nobel prize are telling us this.
On Jan. 1, 2008 I did not foresee:
the decline in the real estate market
the decline of the banking and loan institutions
the decline in the stock market
the drastic increase in groceries
the drastic increase in utilities
the cost of gasoline to nearly $4.oo/gal.
However, during this economic crisis the Cove:
hired a full-time pool attendant(we had not had one before)
installed guard rails at Pensacola pond
installed new drive-by bulletin boards
installed new security system
installed new sound system
bought expensive high fuel use truck
remodeled office
remodeled bathrooms at main clubhouse
and initiated the fob system.
Could not some of these been up on hold until the economy improved?????
Let’s all get a grip here. I believe far more is bing made of this “Cove indigent” issue than need be. When did the Cove turn into Baldwin County’s Bowry? Where are all these people? I know some folks are having a hard time. It happens to many when they get old, become ill or infirm, lose a spouse, have little family or few friends to assist. But this is the greatest place in the world to be if those things beset us. We have caring neighbors, organizations like Care Force in place, social organizations sponsored by our governments. What has changed there?
I believe some folks are using the recent downturn in the economy, coupled with the proposed assessment increase, to get Henny Penny running in hyperspeed, warning of apocalypse and falling skies. Well, it just ain’t so. Yes, we need to take a measured approach to next year’s Budget. Maybe we can further evaluate how we’re going to manage AR&R. Maybe the Board can be convinced to reduce the Assessment increase accordingly. But let’s get rid of the hyperbole and look at this issue from the perspective of a Property Owners’ Association, which is what we are – an association whose responsibility it is to provide a certain level of services to suit the majority of its members. Now, if the majority indeed wants to cut services, I would suggest they get off their collective keisters and let the Board know their desires. The same people saying the same things over and over doesn’t do the job. Otherwise, let the Board do what they believe is the right thing for that majority.
As I heard for years: Lead, Follow or Get out of the way!!
Dale, you didn’t cause a furor. As mentioned to Pat, Cove residents and the Board feel very strongly about the proposed dues increase and opinions and emotions are running high. Mistakes and misinterpretations will and are bound to happen until a decision is reached. I hope that you will continue to offer and provide your opinion on Cove Connections.
I’m sorry to have caused such a furor. I exaggerated in my response – I thought it was clear, but apparently not to anyone. We obviously couldn’t fire everyone or there be no more POASC; however these folks work for low salaries with no benefits – and I think do a terriffic job. To lay this at their door is unfair.
The phrase “make the hard decisions” is a quote from Sharon Bemis at the last Board meeting. My comment about making the smart decisions relate to the entire Finance Committee and Board of Directors – not to me except as a member of those groups.
I guess I’ll follow Barbara’s example and just leave. By the way we have been conversing on the Budget – and the Budget shows both FY2008 and 2009 side-by-side with the difference in a third column to the right.
Dave, the completely false statements that were apparently attributed to Pat in my opinion constitute an attack. I covered it in detail already. If you were the cbject of the misrepresentations perhaps you would see it differently.
No Barbara, the Board has not approved the budget. The vote at the last meeting was just to accept it from the Finance Committee. The vote to approve, change and accept the budget will occur at the regular Board meeting after the hearing on the 8th.
If you want to see the actual expenditures year to date 2008, they are avaIable from Sue Huff and or the POASC Office. A copy of the previous months statement is offered to anyone who wants one at the regular Board meeting and is later available on request. As a synopsis, the last statements, October, showed receipts of $34,000 lerss than was budgeted YTD and expenditures of about $58,000 over what was planned. Most of the under income has been caused by a fall off from the sales of homes and new construction in the Cove. The budget to be approved reflects this by drastically reducing the anticipated revenue. All the money from Buy Ins and Impact fees are dedicated to the AR&R fund and or the Capital Improvements fund. The AR&R fund is under funded according to the schedule appreoved by the Board last year. The drop of anticipated revenue must be offset by funds coming from assessments which obviously is part of the reason for the amount of the assessment increase being proposed. The operating expenditures reflect what is believed to be necessary to run the Cove. Obviously the increases in utilities, for example, which have caused the overspending this year are reflected in the proposed budget and again affect the dues increase. There is no intent to hide transparency. Each minth Sue and Dale give a lengthy report to the Board and all those at the meeting. The Finance Committee meetings, including all budget discussion is open to the public and as a member of the Finance Committee I will tell you I am appalled at the lack of visitors who come to the meeting. I think you will be amazed at the amount of open discussion.
You are confusing the Budget with Operating reports. Operating reports are available by request at the Office, or any Board meeting. The numbers shown on the Budget were built from monthly and year-to-date, income and expenses.
Does it really matter what all this discussion is about? Didn’t the board already approve the budget? I picked up a hard copy from the office and was somewhat concerned because there are no actual expenses or income given for 2008. My concern was that the 2009 budget is just an increase over the 2008 without taking into account the actual numbers from 2008 thus making the information shared with the membership somewhat false. There is no transparency unfortunately. Hopefully the board will consider more transparency in the future. As far as this discussion goes it is a dead one. I made a promise to my husband and I must keep it so I am leaving this site and any other related to the cove and am going to find a more rewarding past time where I know I can truly make a difference. Good by.
Ron, I do not see where anyone’s thoughts have been attacked. What I see occurring here is a valid discussion on ideas. A difference in opinion is both good and healthy. I can understand your, Pat’s and Bob’s thoughts and where you are coming from. The opinions of others get filed in my data bank, some call it a head, and are utilized when formulating a decision or opinion. Will you please explain why you feel the on going discussion in any way resembles an attack. Bob, Pat, you and others gave valid reasons why you feel salaries should be considered as cutable expenses. Dale put his thoughts and knowledge into his reply and explanation there is a lot good in that.In coming days I hope we all can sit down discuss our thoughts and find a way to meet the needs of all 1500 of the members.
In closing, discussion is not jumping on, it is the process of resolving. Thank god we have that ability, and right, in this great country and wonderful place we live
Pat, thanks for your comment and like Bob Miller (see comment #67) I appreciate not only your perspective but your willingness to share your thoughts and opinions with us.
Sometimes residents become passionate about subjects that matter to them which is definitely the case in the proposed dues increase situation.
Hopefully, the Board will be able to reach a compromise that will take both the POASC and owner’s position into consideration.
Thanks again for your comment and hope to see you on January 8th.
Pat, I agree with you and Mr. Miller and the others who have made well reasoned and stated comments. We as individuals apparently can’t factor in any uncontrollable cost increases such as your insurance. So just call your insurance company and tell them their rates are fiduciarily irresponsible.
I saw no slogans in your comment, I saw no reccomendation that we fire anyone in your comment and obviously Mr. Morsette feels that only someone who agrees with him is capable of making “the smart decisions”.
Take my advice and don’t enumerate expenses that could be curtailed. Someone here will even further mischaracterize or invent more statements for you. It has happened to me here. Can’t we practice free speech without being attacked?
Good Luck, Pat. I hope you are able to find suitable insurance at rates you can afford.
I believe that this “insurability factor” portends to be a major determinant regarding the viability of some sections of the Cove. Perhaps this question should become a section of review for our Long Range Plan?
In its extreme, its easy to foresee the demolition or replacement of older units with new(or stick-built) homes, that would be easier(less expensive) to insure, and maintain.
In fact, the higher initial cost might be offset or mitigated by lower insurance/maintenance costs over the life of the unit?
Pat, I’m very sorry you’ve lost your insurance. And the timing, or course, could not be more cruel.
I have to go back to my earlier response to Bob Miller. The increase in expenses are less than 2.4%, less than half the increase in the cost of living (5.8%). We had to work hard to get there. It is not as though we didn’t consider savings for this coming year and lessen the impact.
However, the Cove has uncontrollable cost increases in utilities, taxes, expenses understated per the monthly financials – especially weather related expenses. We estimated $10,000 (then called Hurricane Disaster), but the amount we’ve had to pay is $34,086 through November. To not increase the Budget for those accounts would be fiduciarily irresponsible. That increase alone was $20,000 to $30,000, hoping the need for tree cutting will be less next year.
I understand slogan’s like “need to make the hard decisions”, etc. sound great – let’s fire everybody and make their lives miserable. I prefer to think it is necessary to make the smart decisions.
I’m in agreement with Bob Miller. Since we just received our letter of cancellation of our homeowner’s insurance today(the day after Christmas) I agree that there should be a drastic cost-cutting and a salary freeze would help. I truly believe that the worst is yet to come. I don’t go out to suchi lunches or casino trips to be able to give them up.I must worry about personal finances before beautification of the cove.
Having once worked in the field, there are Medicaid, SSI, Food Stamps and a number of smaller programs administered through the Council on Aging. All it takes is a phone call! Catholic Social Services maintains an Office in Robertsdale, and is very familiar with all of these programs, too.
Several years ago, a representative from the Council on Aging made visits to the Cove. The visits stopped due to a lack of interest?
If they haven’t all been eliminated over the past eight years, there are several programs to help elderly folks like ourselves and neighbors. Also for those whose income is not enough to live on. I don’t know them specifically, but I think a call to Foley Social Services (I don’t know if that is a true department, or not) would help those who need it. This is not ‘begging’, or exposing yourself as “needy.” It is using a service that you have paid for throughout your life in taxes. These folks are the ones who know what programs are available to fit specific needs. Property owners may want to help, but it is not an easy problem, and we are simply unskilled in this arena.
In the Finance Committee we are tasked with ensuring that the Cove, as a whole, is financially secure. Do we need a Social Services Committee? I don’t know, but that is a total Board decision as Dick mentions in #75.
Thank you, Jim. I hadn’t previously thought you had seen any of my comments relating to conscience. I haven’t seen before comments that had the spin that the more recent ones here have had.
As I recall you made a similar statement on a broader scale of applicability in the past and then returned. I will try to dig it up
I could reference you to a number of biblical passages that relate to the subject. If my comment offended you personally in some way I apologize.
Deedjay: How about if we track the increases for the past 15 years instead? Although I wasn’t here then, I understand there were many years without increases at all, to the detriment of the Cove’s financial health. That same 50% increase spread over a 15 year period might not seem as great. This year’s increase seems excessive to some folks, but it’s in keeping with the policies and assumptions the Finance and Budget committees were tasked with applying when next year’s Budget was developed. That’s not to say a concerned citizenry can’t present sufficient arguments to the Board for their consideration. I’m sure members of the Board read this blog, and will use some of the information to make their decisions. Remember, we also have the meeting Jan 8th.
As for the jokes, I can only ask you to lighten up a bit. I know, that comment coming from a man just fans the flames, so I’ll refer you to Sandra’s post #53, and wish you a Merry Christmas!
When we moved into the Cove in 2000 the dues were less than $100 per quarter. Now they will be $150 (rounding out here). Is that not an increase of 50%?
My SS has not gone up that much.. it was a whopping 5% like the rest on SS.However the cost of living here has truly gone up,as have our daily/monthly living expenses. I know, I know-all our assets and the privileges we get from living here.
Time to get back on track here-no sexist,polictically incorrect jokes are needed.
My concern as usual is for those who live only on their Social Security and who are sufficiently elderly that their benefits are much, much less than most, if not all of us. They gave up any idea of sushi, casinos or vehicle ownership long ago.
Bob, I understand the insurance situation is bad. I’m close to considering self-insuring. But if you look closely at the Budget you’ll find that Expenses are schedule to rise less than 2.4% – that’s less than half of the Cost of Living (we use Social Security as a marker of Cost of Living). The CHANGE is in the Income side. We’ve had to mark down our expected income in order to come closer to reality. To balance that loss of income from realty transactions it requires an increase in Assessments.
I understand that no one wants an increase, but ignoring known expenses, or reductions in income does make them happen. We must deal with what the facts are. Charlie attends all of our Finance Committee Meetings and is doing yeoman’s duty of cutting costs with minimal impact on our quality of life here in the Cove. We propose what we believe to be the best Budget possible to the Board of Directors – and it is the Board that decides whether it is acceptable.
I, in no way, meant this in a contentious way Bob – I like you too much for that (and you have my poker money).
The $48 annual increase is a far cry from the additional $900 in house insurance. It IS an increase, however, but it is a necessary increase.
Bob, I am sorry but I must disagree with your comment concerning an employee wage freeze Many of our employees live in The Cove and they face the same cost and insurance problems you face. In addition. many live with incomes that are no higher than many of us, and maybe even less than most members do. Everyone on Social Security received a substantial increase for 2009. I do not think it fair to ask those that work so hard for us to live at a level lower than they did in 2008 which a wage freeze would cause. Personally, I am willing to cut out a Sushi Lunch, a trip to the Casino, or a few gallons of gas to have The Cove continue to be the beautiful and wonderful place to live it is, and to give our employees the raise they need and deserve.
Bob, thanks for your comment and different perspective.
Other property owners are opposed to, and are angry with, the proposed increase but very few have provided specifics as to why they can’t afford it and what sort of impact it will have on their lives.
Hopefully, your comment will open the door so that other residents can share their concerns too.
The Cove Assessment has been raised every year for the last seven years. The
Board needs to do some cost cutting as property owners are not cash cows waiting to be milked. Many property owners have lost their Home owners Insurance due to the hurricanes. My insurance has been cancelled by ALL-STATE. I was paying $800.00 a year for full coverage and now I have to pay $1700.00 a year and coverage is not as good. This amounts to a 100% increase in payments. There should be a freeze on any wage increases this year.
With costs of food and clothing and utilities going up our budget is stretched to the limit.
Property Owners have to control their spending in many ways because the economy has gone South and the has to do likewise.
Sally, I have spoken to Lynn. She has indicated that all of the Meals on Wheels people do notr qualify. She said that they all could afford to pay for their meals. I will try Ceil. I also wrote something up for the Update, hopefully Tom and Marci will have room. Oh, am I a stranger or just plain strange?
Sally, I agree with you that would be the most likely successful course of action. Careforce might serve as a line of contact as well, those perhaps along with word of mouth from casual contact. Almost none of these folks have computers or transportation and they most frequently are quite elderly.
One morning in the middle of summer an elderly lady at the Dollar Store began a conversation. She said she lived at the cove and did baby sitting for a neighbor who in exchange would pick up things for her since she had no car.
Sometimes her neighbor would drop her off at the Dollar Store while she went to other places.
She seemed excited at the opportunity to be there. I was more or less speechless. I have wanted to kick myself many times for not trying to glean more specific information from her. I suppose I am fearful that ladies that I do not know will think I am a dirty old man.
Dave, you might contact Ceil Campbell of CareForce or Lynn Ochs of the Meals on Wheels program. They might have some insight. Perhaps those in need would not want to contact you, a relative stranger, but they are in contact with Ceil and Lynn on a regular basis. Just a thought.
Barbara, I have been trying to find some people in need too. There are several very generous people who have donated money so that they can be given Senior Dinners purchased through the Angel Food Ministries Program I have made postings on this Blog and also the FreeSpeak one. Unfortunately no one has contacted me. If you know an individual or several individuals please let me know their names or have them contact me directly. The requirements are 1. That they live in Spanish Cove. 2. That they qualify for any of these programs, Medicaid, Food Stamps, or the free prescription program run by the various drug companies. If you are anyone else has any thoughts how we can reach those in need please let me know. Donations to provide additional food during the current and future months are appreciated too. I am submitting something to the Update, hopefully there will be room for publication.
Barbara, what makes you think that more attention is paid to sexist jokes here on Cove Connections than other matters. Just because we’re having a little fun doesn’t mean that we’re not as concerned as you are.
Dave Danson and Dick Junkins are on the Finance Committee and have spent many hours working on Cove financial matters to make sure that we will continue to stay in good financial position regardless of the recession. Sally and I have worked for hours and hours making sure that Cove residents have accurate news and meeting information. What’s wrong with having a little fun in the process?
With regards to the Cove’s poor, elderly, residents if you will provide names and numbers (with their permission of course) I would love to meet them and write about their individual situations on Cove Connections. Names won’t be used if they wish to remain anonymous. My email address is sandrab@gulftel.com.
A CPA cannot be involved in the operations of a client, that the firm is also auditing. To do so, would create a conflict of interest.
Several years ago, we considered hiring a 2nd CPA firm to help with planning, budgeting, etc. The Finance Comm. decided that the extra expense was not warranted, at the time.
Dave, you are right we certainly don’t want a special assessment levied. However, the POASC through the Manager have the responsibility to reduce costs as much as possible, not only to ensure bills are paid without a special assessment, but also to protect the cove from the deep recession which has not hit here as yet. The reason I asked about the budget being reviewed by an outside CPA is earlier in one of the updates it was mentioned that the board was considering having the financials turned over to a private contractor. Possibly a cost analysis would have been helpful. What temperatures are the hot water tanks set at? I wash my clothes in cold water and they come out clean. How many people have to add cold water to the hot water to take a shower. Do we have automatic thermostats in the club houses that reuce the temperature during certain hours? Do we have our lights at the club houses on timers? All of these may seem minimal but added together can reflect a significant savings. Sacrifice is part of protecting our association. How many of the snow birds are auto related retirees? I don’t just mean the auto companies but suppliers as well. If they have 2 homes and have to choose between which they will keep and which they will sell or let go, which one do you think it would be? We are not immune from what is happening in other parts of this country and if we don’t take the appropriate steps we will be greatly disappointed in what will happen to the cove. It may be warm and fuzzy to think we can’t be touched but take a look at how many homes have gone up for sale recently and watch how many more are in the future.
This is a difficult time for this board or any board to try and know what to do, but to do nothing will potnetially lead us to where some major profit making corporations find themselves today. I don’t envy anyone’s position or authority. From what I have read here more attention is made of sexist jokes and that’s really too bad.
Barbara, you ask a number of interesting questions. Concerning the accountant , he has never reviewed our budget, nor should he. He is an independent outside accountant hired by the Board to make sure that our financial records were accurately kept and hopefully protect POASC against any impropriety. If he were to review the budget his independence might be jepordized. Up to now, in my opinion, to much emphissis has been placed on the short fall in revenues which as Sally indicates is of minor consiquence. There is however a more significant spending over budget situation. In my opinion, the proposed budget address your concern about possible economic fall out in The Cove, both for next year and future years. The last thing we want is a special assessment.
I certainly hope a LOT of the membership attends as well. Financial matters are extremely important right now. I’m not coming to be confrontational, I’m coming as a concerned property owner.
Dave, you must be taking LSD or smoking those ‘hallucogenic’ mushrooms since you’re either dreaming or delusional?
And remember (as Dick likes to say):
Two elderly couples were enjoying friendly conversation when one of the men asked the other, “Fred, how was the memory clinic you went to last month?” “Outstanding,” Fred replied. “They taught us all the latest psychological techiniques – visualization, association – it made a huge difference for me.” “That`s great! What was the name of the clinic?” Fred went blank. He thought and thought, but couldn`t remember. Then a smile broke across his face and he asked, “What do you call that red flower with the long stem and thorns?” “You mean a rose?” “Yes, that`s it!” He turned to his wife. . .”Rose, what was the name of that clinic?”
And finally,
Once I had multiple personalities, but now we are feeling well.
Barbara, the Jan. 8 meeting is required by the Operating Procedures regarding the budget. See #3 below. In past years attendance has been very sparse. I hope you and many others will be there to ask questions. However, in the end, it is the board of directors that must take all factors into consideration and based on their knowledge of the state of the Cove, make the final decision. It is not an easy job. #5 below is somewhat confusing. All that is required is that property owners receive a copy of the finalized budget that was approved by the board of directors.
1. A proposed budget will be prepared by the budget sub-committee in time for presentations specified below.
2. The proposed budget will be presented to the Finance Committee at the December committee meeting, and presented to the Board of Directors, with the Finance Committees recommendations, at the next Board Meeting.
3. A presentation of the proposed budget will then be made to the General Membership as soon as practical. Notification to the residents will be published in the UPDATE and other communications media
4. The proposed budget will then be presented to the Board of Directors for their final review and approval, prior to the Annual Membership Meeting,
5. The approved budget will be presented to the membership at the annual meeting and published in the UPDATE.
Will the January 8, 2009 meeting allow for member participation? There are several items that may need further discussion, such as Beautification, Maint/Labor Payroll, Management & Office Payroll, And a further breakdown of all the different Maintaince accounts. Also, did our CPA have an opportunity to offer an opinion? Please don’t misunderstand me I’m not trying to be confrontational just concerned about the necessary belt tightening. We are not immune from the potential of an economic catrastophy next year and have either a contingency budget in place or a plan of action. Since my husband’s passing I have found numerous ways of cutting my expenses (probably not enough) but I continue to adjust and am anticipating what I hope and pray will not materialize. I’m not a pessimist I am optimistic to a degree, but when it comes to the Congress I get concerned.
I wish people would stop talking about a deficit. As far as I know, the only “deficit” is less income than projected in the current budget that was approved last January, based on history and projections. That was before the bottom dropped out of the real estate industry and everything else. As far as I know, the only income that is part of the operations budget is from transfer fees (and perhaps Building Permits). The Buy-In fees go to AR&R and the Impact Fees from developer construction is distributed half to AR&R and half to Capital Improvement. So yes, there is less income than projected, but tightening the belt has helped keep our heads above water.
Whoa, Dave, are you planning to venture outside any time soon? On second thought, we have an inside person who can do great harm. Best be on your good behavior.
I am starting a petition to get a constitutional amendment started and passed to give women an absolute right to serve man, but without the right to say other than yes dear, and to only “publish “wittisms”" with the express consent, as expressed by a vote, of a 2/3 majority of all men involved. If you want to sign and or help this petition please let me know.
Q. Why are beer cans so easy to open?
A. Look who’s drinking them.
Q. Why are blonde jokes so short?
A. So men can remember them.
Q. What’s the difference between a wise man and a dumb man?
A. Absolutely nothing. They both think they know everything.
And finally:
A man walks into a bar and finds a Genie in a lamp. The Genie will only grant him one wish. The man wishes to be a million times smarter than any man on earth. *POOF* the Genie turns him into a woman!
Q. How many men does it take to open a Budweiser?
A. None. It should be opened by the time she brings it.
Q. Why is a Laundromat a really bad place to pick up a woman?
A. Because a woman who can’t even afford a washing machine will never be
able to support you.
Q. Why do women have smaller feet than men?
A. So they can stand closer to the kitchen sink.
Q. Why do men pass gas more than women?
A. Because women won’t shut up long enough to build up pressure.
And remember:
All wives are alike, but they have different faces so you can tell
them apart.
The most effective way to remember your wife’s birthday is to forget it
once.
And finally:
Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street
with a bald head and a big gut, and still think they are beautiful.!!!!!
I have more, but at the risk of losing my life or something even more valuable I’ll stop right there!!
We are women, hear us roar,
In numbers too big to ignore
And we know too much to go back and pretend
’cause we’ve heard it all before
And we’ve been down there on the floor
No one’s ever gonna keep us down again
CHORUS
Oh yes we are wise
But it’s wisdom born of pain
Yes, we’ve paid the price
But look how much we’ve gained
If we have to, we can do anything
We are strong (strong)
We are invincible (invincible)
We are WOMEN!
calrification: An AR&R account is required by the Covenants. The annual contribution is determined by the schedule, which the Board attempts to comply with.
As long as we’re discussing AR&R, lets remember the recently enacted schedule is a desirable guideline, to be followed for the betterment of the Cove. Its not mandatory or contractual in any way.
To be sexist, and risk having this comment removed. Ben, Dick, women have good figures instead of being good with figures.
Dick, I do hope we can get some good discussion and ideas coming from what has started here.
I too would like to see you on the Board, Dick, but then again you would be a loss to CC. I think that is called mixed emotions. I do disagree with what Barbara indicated. It is not fair to the other Board Members if you attend one and miss two, Being on the Board is an important respnsibility. Run, or be appointed when you can devote yourself to the job. My two cents.
Well, I’m pretty sure that’s the same way you explained it to me, Ben. Must be a “guy” thing! I haven’t quite been able to explain it to Patty, either.
Dave #24: That’s the kind of reasoned discussion needed. The AR&R Schedule (proper name) does allow for a great deal of flexibility, not only in the Schedule itself, but in the funding set aside to support it. You and I (and others) have discussed this very subject in the recent past. I thought your ideas had merit then, and I do now.
Barbara: Thanks for your kind words. That’s something I will consider in the future, but for now, even though I’m only working part time, my business demands an inordinate amount of my time. In the meantime I’ll try to contribute to committees and learn more about the workings of the Cove. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you as well, and condolences from all of us on your recent loss.
I second the motion for Dick to join the board. He thinks things through, looks at both sides and doesn’t hold grudges if someone doesn’t agree with him. All important attributes for board members.
I cringe when someone says “Why raise assessments when we have all that money?” “That money” saved us from a special assessment after Ivan. “That money” replaced the pool dome when it was damaged. “That money” pays for needed replacement of maintenance equipment and repairs to the facilities. Many states require homeowner associations to have reserve funds. Alabama does not, but previous board members were wise to set up this savings account.
Barbara, I was on the Board, and Treasurer when the Board adopted the 2004-2005 budget which is one of the two large increases you asked about. Also on the Board with me was Sally McKinney, Ben Bonett, Jim Fletcher, John Lucas, I think Bill Miller, Harry Passmore, and Bill Tate. I am sorry but my memory fails me concerning who the other members were at the time That was a very difficult time. We had just gone throw I think it was 7 years of no increase in assessments. In addition the AR&R fund was badly underfunded due to mis-information from the then property manager. If I remember correctly the value of the fund was about $100,000. The assets it had to cover were basically the same as today. In addition, we had operated at an accumulated deficit of over $30,000 since the inception of POASC and it was necessary to cover that deficit . As Treasurer I proposed, and the Board agreed, that we increase the budget by the maximum amount allowed. I hope that answers your question about one of the occurances.
Mr. Junkins: Are you a resident of Alabama? You shuold run for the Board. If you are still working that could be handled with teleconferencing for board meetings. Remember you could attend 1, miss 2, attend 1, etc. and still remain a director and obviously have genuine intelligent input. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Dick, the AR&R schedule was finally adopted by the Board last year after many years of work. Like any other plan, it makes certain assumptions which can always be changed or questioned. Personally I think the road portion of it is on pretty solid ground. We own about 20 miles of road, I believe the plan is based on doing 1 mile a year, thus a complete cycle will be once every 20 years. I believe it is a necessity that we contribute enough to do that one mile every year, whether the money is actually used or not because in the long term it will have to be spent, and a 20 year life seems reasonable. I do not support the concept that we must pave every year, but we can not afford to not set aside the money in AR&R. That would leave us vulnerable to a special assessment in the future especially if road paving and storm cleanup should correspond. To me, a special assessment of even a couple of hundred dollars, and that could be small, all of which is required at once and quickly would be catastrophic to those members who find it most difficult to pay the $4 monthly increase called for in this budget. That being said, I do not believe it is necessary for us to ever have the total amount of money in AR&R that the schedule calls for since the money is a pool and it seems highly unlikely that we would ever need to replace everything at once. I believe the board should adopt a policy of either a % of full funding– 60% for example- or establish a maximum amount that the fund maintains. My thought is that someplace between $600,000 and $700,000 should provide for ample catastrophe protection. It would cover all the expenses of an Ivan and still allow for Road repaving in the same year. Under my concept, when the fund reaches that level it would be possible to suspend, or at least reduce contributions to AR&R which this year total over $200,000 when funds from the Impact Fee and the Buy In Fee are included. This is a significant portion of our discretionary spending.
Good, Ron. Let’s get back to the subject at hand. I’m not in charge of anything around here, so these are my personal opinions and observations, but I think I understand what’s been happening:
What is driving the Assessment increase? The Budget. And what drives the Budget? A reasoned projection of next year’s Income and Expenses based largely on logic, last & previous years’ experience and, to some degree, conjecture. This year’s Budget was understated on the Income side – we didn’t actually receive as much money in the Cove’s coffers as we thought we would. Expenses grew somewhat, but not significantly due largely to actions by the Property Manager and Board to hold spending back. Next year’s projected Budget takes those shortfalls into consideration, and levies an increased Assessment to balance the Income and Expense sides of the books.
People say, “Well, just cut expenses. There are things we can do without”. That may well be, but what’s the impact on those who have come to expect those services “we” don’t need? Others say, “Don’t pave. We can save lots of money by not paving.” And right there is a key issue, and it concerns AR&R.
The AR&R Budget, a separate budget from the general Cove Budget, establishes a 20-year projection for repair, maintenance and replacement of roads, buildings, the pool and other capital items in the Cove. Current policy is to ensure that we accumulate sufficient funds in AR&R to cover those anticipated expenses in the outyears. That’s the reason we have as much money as we do in the AR&R fund. It’s also the reason why postponing paving doesn’t necessarily result in reduced Assessments. The money must still be accumulated in the AR&R “savings account” because the paving will need to be done anyway, and the money must be available for it.
Now, one can argue for or against the policy of accumulating funds in AR&R. One may also argue about the AR&R Budget itself and the necessity of planned, regular repair and replacement of high-dollar items. But this year’s Budget shortfalls, couple with the need to maintain the AR&R fund, established the rules by which next year’s Budget was developed. Hence, the proposed Assessment increase.
I propose we take a hard look at the AR&R Budget, or Plan, and see if the assumptions that were made when the Plan was put together still hold water in light of the current economic climate. Several people have wondered whether we need as aggressive a paving plan as we have. Paving is the largest AR&R expense. In that respect I believe the AR&R Budget could use some tweaking. However, I also believe it is good policy to plan for long-term repair and repalcement of assets, and accrue sufficient funds to handle those expenses. But maybe there is some middle ground we can achieve to reduce some of those lomg-term expenses while ensuring the Cove standards, property values and amenities are maintained. There’s the challenge we face.
We haven’t previously been enduring times of financial hardship such as this is and most likely will be when increases were imposed. I am finished on this matter here. My conscience is clear.
Hey Ron, We’ve incurred dues increases every year for several years now (see above) and I don’t seem to remember you being so outspoken or against them before? Of course, I didn’t know you back then which probably has something to do with it.
The proposed assessment increase will be less than $1.00 per week which, to me, is worth it considering the great place we live in.
Maybe it’s time to explore life as an elderly resident living within the Spanish Cove community.
As my hero Ron – Reagan, that is – would say, “There you go again!” Ron, I tried to give you a pass the last time you mentioned depriving the elderly, the poor or widows of their sustenance, but you just can’t resist the urge to make some sarcastic or left-handed remark about the apparently cold-hearted decision makers and their consciences, or their desire to benefit only a select few to the detriment of others. Thought you could let that dog lie, but I’ll put that in my “guess I was wrong” column.
NeoCons were not conservative in the traditional sense. Obviously from the record of the recent administration they weren’t concerned at all with balanced budgets. They seemed to be primarily concerned with giving no bid contracts to Halliburton and Kellogg, Brown & Root after attacking nations that had constituted no threat to our nation.. I could never discern any true or idealistic political objectives.
Tories were the original supporters of the British throne in this country in opposition to what are now called our partriot forefathers. Their role in contemporary British political matters seem to have largely been abandoned or forgotten.
But as my exwife so frequently said, ” What the hell do I know?”
Hey, if you guys can live with decisions that deprive the elderly of their heat and medications and live with youe consciences, who am I to question?
It really helps to see the figures (facts) since it appears that the requested dues increase is in line with past increases especially in light of the current economic situation.
Ron, I am and have been concerned with the elderly too, but I also think POASC dues and financial aid / charity should be handled separately. POASC isn’t a charitable organization.
If POASC is unable to help help what else can be done? Dave and Terry have already offered the Angel Food Ministries program. Barbara’s idea of the form in the Update is another good idea. Surely there are other ways to help the elderly who are in trouble?
Dale, I really don’t think that only progressives care for the welfare of their fellow man. I believe there truly are compassionate conservatives… for most of my life I was one. Recent years have made me a yellow dog Democrat. I don’t see this as a political issue at all. I am sorry it has been misconstrued by some in that manner.
I am familiar with the procedures in place to approve the budget. It is not my position that the budget should be based on the needs of our most needy, although any of us could come to be numbered in their ranks. However, personally I could not live with failing to place their needs in the balance and considering all alternative options.
In my opinion your estimates for income were impacted by what I fear will prove to be only the beginning phase of our recession/depression and it will get worse, much worse.
If we do not choose to prioritize expenses to reduce out go we will eventually be forced to do so. Again my choice would have been to delay paving since inevitably reduced oil prices will most likely reduce those costs as well. Since that path was not chosen the only major budget items that would balance our needs without the increase are pool heating or personnel reduction. I personally would choose to delay paving over each of those. As I understand it that is no longer an option, thus my position.
It is not my goal to impose my will upon others but I will attempt to bring these issues to light since generally those folks have neither computers or transportation.
I too have been very critical of the board. Times like these call for a coming together for the benefit of the community. I have recently lost my husband and have a much clearer view of the seriousness of our time. People who are in need don’t want you to know. They are not used to being on the receiving end of charity (as they see it). Perhaps the Activities committee could put on a couple of benefit pot lucks where those who have the opportunity to donate to a special fund could contribute. Perhaps the Update coule include a confidentail form that pwople who cannot make their assessments due to fincial constraints could complete and return so the Association could direct aid to them. This all would have to be held in confidentiality of course. Years ago I worked at a Federally Funded Health Clinic where people were charged on their ability to pay.
We have started, or are trying to start a program to help those in need., We have purchased 20 prepared meals from Angel Food Ministries. 9 of these meals,m which are 1 pound nutritionally balanced and quite tasty, have been purchased through contributions from several caring people to be given to those in need. We are looking for additional contributions, and the names of people in need, so these meals can be given. If you would like to contribute please contact me. If you know of someone in need please have them contact me. Admittedly this is a very small start, but everything has to have a beginning
Ron, I appreciate your comments above. We worked very hard on this budget based on our unfortunate estimates last year. The Finance Committee develops the Budget well in advance of the time it takes effect. Last year our estimates on real estate activity obviously turned out to be terribly off the mark.
I have a hard time, however, basing our budget on the needs of the most needy in our community. The Budget also has to be approved by both the Finance Committee as a whole, and the Board of Directors which it did unanimously in both cases.
I am a Progressive and voted for Obama, but this budget has to apply to everyone in our community. My own recommendation is that someone, or group take the responsibility to search out programs that would benefit those in need. They would be in the best position to do it, and more professional in the way it would be handled.
Sandra, with your permission I would like to state here that I have never questioned the good intentions and sense of responsibility of any or all the board members. I believe the committees and the board have struggled with this and all associated issues. If I had been in their shoes I would have probably chosen to postpone paving except as was required for safety. I wasn’t involved in the decision and I am aware there are issues that compromise that choice as well.
My concern is for the people here who are already having to choose between their medications, food, and heat or other necessities. In this present time of unprecedented financial hardship in a non-agrarian society I believe we all share a responsibility to make extreme and difficult choices in matters of financial priorities. Thank you.
No, Mr. Wade, I don’t believe you have the rights you claim. Individual salaries are confidential and I believe they should remain that way. You are able to see the complete books, and you can question any expenses you believe are out of line or require additional explanation. But you should not assume “rights” you don’t posess. Occasionally the Board of a corporation may disclose the salaries and benefits of its senior executives, and that’s a decision of the Board, not the shareholders. But you’ll never see that same Board allow unauthorized individuals to see what each employee of the corporation makes. Let’s be realistic, and also repect the privacy of individuals who work for the Cove.
As for the Board approving or disapproving who runs for open positions each year, you may be confused on that point. The Elections Committee reveives nominations for election and reviews them, only to ensure that candidates are eligible as property owners. You may be thinking of Appointments to vacant positions in between annual elections. In those cases, when a vacancy occurs, the Chairman of the Board is allowed to nominate prospective appointees to complete the term of the vacated position, Nominees are then accepted or rejected by a vote of the Board.
I do believe salary’s are confidential, however, as a owner of property in the Cove and a member of POASC, I have the right to see the complete books at any time!!!. I am not saying that we should send out a notice to everyone telling salary’s but everyone does have the right to see the books and judge for themselves.
As stated in my post, when fee’s are being increased we all need to see where every penny is being spent including individual salary’s and proposed raises and benefits.
As for my salary no one in my company had the right, as we were a closed corporation and only owners were privileged to that information. Clients did pay for our services and received a fair price for services rendered. I do not believe that I qualify as a Client of POASC. therefore I have the right to see the complete information.
As for the Board, I do not feel that the Board has the right to approve or disapprove of who can run for the position as long as the member is in good standing and up to date. Therefore I choose not to run as I believe it is the POASC members who should make the decision by voting. rather than a small group of Board members choosing who can run.
Copies of the Cove’s monthly operating reports are available, upon request, at the POASC Office or at a Board meeting.
I don’t believe individual salaries should be published to the membership. In your business, I doubt that you did that sort of thing or anything similar to it. Your customers paid your salaries, but you surely didn’t disclose private information to them, especially at the salary level. Here in the Cove, we have much greater openness in financial disclosure, but salaries and wage rates are a special category. Even with Government contracts, where a third party is directly paying personnel salaries, only a select few in the Governemt are privy to that information. Personal privacy and dignity has value, too. I’m surprised that someone with your background would think the Cove should disclose that information
We know what the total cost is; we know how many employees we have. You can figure an average cost per employee if you wish. If you want to know more, you may wish to consider joining the Board of Directors.
I would like for someone to tell me where in the Bylaws it says Individual salaries are confidential according to the Bylaws. As owners I believe that we all have the right to see in detail our complete books.
As for the $12 increase. I realize that expenses rise being a retired CEO of a $35 million dollar company. I would have lost clients and probably my job if I raised our prices 150%+ and had not reduce my budget to meet the times even if personnel had to be reduced and projects delayed. With the economy being in the shape it is and people struggling should we not put further pressure on individuals and table the increase for the year?
Just because the Bylaws allow an increase it does not mean we have to continually increase every year. Also, what was the population in 1999 of the Cove and now? I believe we will see that our fees have increased more than 150% due to increase in population.
I see we spent $300k for Ivan damage, did we not get reimbursed (Insurance,FEMA) for any of that money?
Please anyone answer.”
You didn’t see, Pat, and neither did most of the economists. However, many of the items you list were accomplished way before anyone saw the economic problems we now face. While I’m sure some of the items could have been delayed had we had second sight, some of them were needed. I’m not sure about the pool attendant, but I believe we have had full-time coverage at the pool for some time. Some of them double in maintenance, I believe. Guard rails were installed as safety items, as the wooden “fence” was not in good shape. The new drive-by bulletin boards were purchased with ad revenue from the phone directory that was produced by volunteers. The clubhouse bathrooms and the clubhouse renovations were completed in July 2007. If you attend board meetings you know how much a new sound system was needed, however not knowing the cost, I can only assume a less expensive one could have been found, although cheaper ones in the past didn’t fare too well. The new fob system and office remodeling could have waited, I suppose. The security system you mention I assume is the in-house security. By starting it this year, we will realize an estimated $21,000 in savings next year (2009-2010). I personally thought a more fuel-efficient vehicle could have been found, but I didn’t have a vote. I understand your concern, Pat, but all those projects were begun before the craziness in September. Could the board have done a better job? Maybe, but you take all the information you have at a given time and make decisions. You win some; you lose some. Fortunately over the past 16 or 17 years, the boards have been right many more times that they were wrong, or shall I say, incorrect? Right now we can give our “wise counsel” at the Budget Meeting on Jan. 8 and pray that the right decisions are made by the only people who can make them, the POASC Board of Directors. Even the top-notch economists disagree on how to handle the money mess in Washington. I guess it will be the same here.
Beautifully said, Pat.
It is obvious that your expenses and those of others who are much more needy fall well below very arbitrary needs assigned by some with such discression at the cove.
Funding to social organizations in our governments have been cut at unprecedented rates and levels during the last eight years.
Those among us who obviously feel little if any compassion can be laying helpless tomorrow as the result of one stroke. There but for the grace of God go I. Our current recession/depression will give us many even more difficult choices in the near future. All the economists including the recipient of the most recent Nobel prize are telling us this.
On Jan. 1, 2008 I did not foresee:
the decline in the real estate market
the decline of the banking and loan institutions
the decline in the stock market
the drastic increase in groceries
the drastic increase in utilities
the cost of gasoline to nearly $4.oo/gal.
However, during this economic crisis the Cove:
hired a full-time pool attendant(we had not had one before)
installed guard rails at Pensacola pond
installed new drive-by bulletin boards
installed new security system
installed new sound system
bought expensive high fuel use truck
remodeled office
remodeled bathrooms at main clubhouse
and initiated the fob system.
Could not some of these been up on hold until the economy improved?????
Stay right where you are, Dale!
Let’s all get a grip here. I believe far more is bing made of this “Cove indigent” issue than need be. When did the Cove turn into Baldwin County’s Bowry? Where are all these people? I know some folks are having a hard time. It happens to many when they get old, become ill or infirm, lose a spouse, have little family or few friends to assist. But this is the greatest place in the world to be if those things beset us. We have caring neighbors, organizations like Care Force in place, social organizations sponsored by our governments. What has changed there?
I believe some folks are using the recent downturn in the economy, coupled with the proposed assessment increase, to get Henny Penny running in hyperspeed, warning of apocalypse and falling skies. Well, it just ain’t so. Yes, we need to take a measured approach to next year’s Budget. Maybe we can further evaluate how we’re going to manage AR&R. Maybe the Board can be convinced to reduce the Assessment increase accordingly. But let’s get rid of the hyperbole and look at this issue from the perspective of a Property Owners’ Association, which is what we are – an association whose responsibility it is to provide a certain level of services to suit the majority of its members. Now, if the majority indeed wants to cut services, I would suggest they get off their collective keisters and let the Board know their desires. The same people saying the same things over and over doesn’t do the job. Otherwise, let the Board do what they believe is the right thing for that majority.
As I heard for years: Lead, Follow or Get out of the way!!
Dale, you didn’t cause a furor. As mentioned to Pat, Cove residents and the Board feel very strongly about the proposed dues increase and opinions and emotions are running high. Mistakes and misinterpretations will and are bound to happen until a decision is reached. I hope that you will continue to offer and provide your opinion on Cove Connections.
I’m sorry to have caused such a furor. I exaggerated in my response – I thought it was clear, but apparently not to anyone. We obviously couldn’t fire everyone or there be no more POASC; however these folks work for low salaries with no benefits – and I think do a terriffic job. To lay this at their door is unfair.
The phrase “make the hard decisions” is a quote from Sharon Bemis at the last Board meeting. My comment about making the smart decisions relate to the entire Finance Committee and Board of Directors – not to me except as a member of those groups.
I guess I’ll follow Barbara’s example and just leave. By the way we have been conversing on the Budget – and the Budget shows both FY2008 and 2009 side-by-side with the difference in a third column to the right.
Dave, the completely false statements that were apparently attributed to Pat in my opinion constitute an attack. I covered it in detail already. If you were the cbject of the misrepresentations perhaps you would see it differently.
No Barbara, the Board has not approved the budget. The vote at the last meeting was just to accept it from the Finance Committee. The vote to approve, change and accept the budget will occur at the regular Board meeting after the hearing on the 8th.
If you want to see the actual expenditures year to date 2008, they are avaIable from Sue Huff and or the POASC Office. A copy of the previous months statement is offered to anyone who wants one at the regular Board meeting and is later available on request. As a synopsis, the last statements, October, showed receipts of $34,000 lerss than was budgeted YTD and expenditures of about $58,000 over what was planned. Most of the under income has been caused by a fall off from the sales of homes and new construction in the Cove. The budget to be approved reflects this by drastically reducing the anticipated revenue. All the money from Buy Ins and Impact fees are dedicated to the AR&R fund and or the Capital Improvements fund. The AR&R fund is under funded according to the schedule appreoved by the Board last year. The drop of anticipated revenue must be offset by funds coming from assessments which obviously is part of the reason for the amount of the assessment increase being proposed. The operating expenditures reflect what is believed to be necessary to run the Cove. Obviously the increases in utilities, for example, which have caused the overspending this year are reflected in the proposed budget and again affect the dues increase. There is no intent to hide transparency. Each minth Sue and Dale give a lengthy report to the Board and all those at the meeting. The Finance Committee meetings, including all budget discussion is open to the public and as a member of the Finance Committee I will tell you I am appalled at the lack of visitors who come to the meeting. I think you will be amazed at the amount of open discussion.
You are confusing the Budget with Operating reports. Operating reports are available by request at the Office, or any Board meeting. The numbers shown on the Budget were built from monthly and year-to-date, income and expenses.
Does it really matter what all this discussion is about? Didn’t the board already approve the budget? I picked up a hard copy from the office and was somewhat concerned because there are no actual expenses or income given for 2008. My concern was that the 2009 budget is just an increase over the 2008 without taking into account the actual numbers from 2008 thus making the information shared with the membership somewhat false. There is no transparency unfortunately. Hopefully the board will consider more transparency in the future. As far as this discussion goes it is a dead one. I made a promise to my husband and I must keep it so I am leaving this site and any other related to the cove and am going to find a more rewarding past time where I know I can truly make a difference. Good by.
Ron, I do not see where anyone’s thoughts have been attacked. What I see occurring here is a valid discussion on ideas. A difference in opinion is both good and healthy. I can understand your, Pat’s and Bob’s thoughts and where you are coming from. The opinions of others get filed in my data bank, some call it a head, and are utilized when formulating a decision or opinion. Will you please explain why you feel the on going discussion in any way resembles an attack. Bob, Pat, you and others gave valid reasons why you feel salaries should be considered as cutable expenses. Dale put his thoughts and knowledge into his reply and explanation there is a lot good in that.In coming days I hope we all can sit down discuss our thoughts and find a way to meet the needs of all 1500 of the members.
In closing, discussion is not jumping on, it is the process of resolving. Thank god we have that ability, and right, in this great country and wonderful place we live
Pat, thanks for your comment and like Bob Miller (see comment #67) I appreciate not only your perspective but your willingness to share your thoughts and opinions with us.
Sometimes residents become passionate about subjects that matter to them which is definitely the case in the proposed dues increase situation.
Hopefully, the Board will be able to reach a compromise that will take both the POASC and owner’s position into consideration.
Thanks again for your comment and hope to see you on January 8th.
Sandra
Dale, Pat said she thought the salaries should be curtailed. There’s a big difference in curtailing salaries and ‘firing everyone’.
Pat, I agree with you and Mr. Miller and the others who have made well reasoned and stated comments. We as individuals apparently can’t factor in any uncontrollable cost increases such as your insurance. So just call your insurance company and tell them their rates are fiduciarily irresponsible.
I saw no slogans in your comment, I saw no reccomendation that we fire anyone in your comment and obviously Mr. Morsette feels that only someone who agrees with him is capable of making “the smart decisions”.
Take my advice and don’t enumerate expenses that could be curtailed. Someone here will even further mischaracterize or invent more statements for you. It has happened to me here. Can’t we practice free speech without being attacked?
Good Luck, Pat. I hope you are able to find suitable insurance at rates you can afford.
I believe that this “insurability factor” portends to be a major determinant regarding the viability of some sections of the Cove. Perhaps this question should become a section of review for our Long Range Plan?
In its extreme, its easy to foresee the demolition or replacement of older units with new(or stick-built) homes, that would be easier(less expensive) to insure, and maintain.
In fact, the higher initial cost might be offset or mitigated by lower insurance/maintenance costs over the life of the unit?
Pat, I’m very sorry you’ve lost your insurance. And the timing, or course, could not be more cruel.
I have to go back to my earlier response to Bob Miller. The increase in expenses are less than 2.4%, less than half the increase in the cost of living (5.8%). We had to work hard to get there. It is not as though we didn’t consider savings for this coming year and lessen the impact.
However, the Cove has uncontrollable cost increases in utilities, taxes, expenses understated per the monthly financials – especially weather related expenses. We estimated $10,000 (then called Hurricane Disaster), but the amount we’ve had to pay is $34,086 through November. To not increase the Budget for those accounts would be fiduciarily irresponsible. That increase alone was $20,000 to $30,000, hoping the need for tree cutting will be less next year.
I understand slogan’s like “need to make the hard decisions”, etc. sound great – let’s fire everybody and make their lives miserable. I prefer to think it is necessary to make the smart decisions.
I’m in agreement with Bob Miller. Since we just received our letter of cancellation of our homeowner’s insurance today(the day after Christmas) I agree that there should be a drastic cost-cutting and a salary freeze would help. I truly believe that the worst is yet to come. I don’t go out to suchi lunches or casino trips to be able to give them up.I must worry about personal finances before beautification of the cove.
Having once worked in the field, there are Medicaid, SSI, Food Stamps and a number of smaller programs administered through the Council on Aging. All it takes is a phone call! Catholic Social Services maintains an Office in Robertsdale, and is very familiar with all of these programs, too.
Several years ago, a representative from the Council on Aging made visits to the Cove. The visits stopped due to a lack of interest?
Maybe conditions have changed?
If they haven’t all been eliminated over the past eight years, there are several programs to help elderly folks like ourselves and neighbors. Also for those whose income is not enough to live on. I don’t know them specifically, but I think a call to Foley Social Services (I don’t know if that is a true department, or not) would help those who need it. This is not ‘begging’, or exposing yourself as “needy.” It is using a service that you have paid for throughout your life in taxes. These folks are the ones who know what programs are available to fit specific needs. Property owners may want to help, but it is not an easy problem, and we are simply unskilled in this arena.
In the Finance Committee we are tasked with ensuring that the Cove, as a whole, is financially secure. Do we need a Social Services Committee? I don’t know, but that is a total Board decision as Dick mentions in #75.
Thank you, Jim. I hadn’t previously thought you had seen any of my comments relating to conscience. I haven’t seen before comments that had the spin that the more recent ones here have had.
As I recall you made a similar statement on a broader scale of applicability in the past and then returned. I will try to dig it up
I could reference you to a number of biblical passages that relate to the subject. If my comment offended you personally in some way I apologize.
Deedjay: How about if we track the increases for the past 15 years instead? Although I wasn’t here then, I understand there were many years without increases at all, to the detriment of the Cove’s financial health. That same 50% increase spread over a 15 year period might not seem as great. This year’s increase seems excessive to some folks, but it’s in keeping with the policies and assumptions the Finance and Budget committees were tasked with applying when next year’s Budget was developed. That’s not to say a concerned citizenry can’t present sufficient arguments to the Board for their consideration. I’m sure members of the Board read this blog, and will use some of the information to make their decisions. Remember, we also have the meeting Jan 8th.
As for the jokes, I can only ask you to lighten up a bit. I know, that comment coming from a man just fans the flames, so I’ll refer you to Sandra’s post #53, and wish you a Merry Christmas!
When we moved into the Cove in 2000 the dues were less than $100 per quarter. Now they will be $150 (rounding out here). Is that not an increase of 50%?
My SS has not gone up that much.. it was a whopping 5% like the rest on SS.However the cost of living here has truly gone up,as have our daily/monthly living expenses. I know, I know-all our assets and the privileges we get from living here.
Time to get back on track here-no sexist,polictically incorrect jokes are needed.
Please refer to Post # 21
My concern as usual is for those who live only on their Social Security and who are sufficiently elderly that their benefits are much, much less than most, if not all of us. They gave up any idea of sushi, casinos or vehicle ownership long ago.
Think about it.
Bob, I understand the insurance situation is bad. I’m close to considering self-insuring. But if you look closely at the Budget you’ll find that Expenses are schedule to rise less than 2.4% – that’s less than half of the Cost of Living (we use Social Security as a marker of Cost of Living). The CHANGE is in the Income side. We’ve had to mark down our expected income in order to come closer to reality. To balance that loss of income from realty transactions it requires an increase in Assessments.
I understand that no one wants an increase, but ignoring known expenses, or reductions in income does make them happen. We must deal with what the facts are. Charlie attends all of our Finance Committee Meetings and is doing yeoman’s duty of cutting costs with minimal impact on our quality of life here in the Cove. We propose what we believe to be the best Budget possible to the Board of Directors – and it is the Board that decides whether it is acceptable.
I, in no way, meant this in a contentious way Bob – I like you too much for that (and you have my poker money).
The $48 annual increase is a far cry from the additional $900 in house insurance. It IS an increase, however, but it is a necessary increase.
Unless you invite me to eat with you. Thursday about 2:30 should be good. Let me know
You’re going to miss a meal?
Bob, I am sorry but I must disagree with your comment concerning an employee wage freeze Many of our employees live in The Cove and they face the same cost and insurance problems you face. In addition. many live with incomes that are no higher than many of us, and maybe even less than most members do. Everyone on Social Security received a substantial increase for 2009. I do not think it fair to ask those that work so hard for us to live at a level lower than they did in 2008 which a wage freeze would cause. Personally, I am willing to cut out a Sushi Lunch, a trip to the Casino, or a few gallons of gas to have The Cove continue to be the beautiful and wonderful place to live it is, and to give our employees the raise they need and deserve.
Bob, thanks for your comment and different perspective.
Other property owners are opposed to, and are angry with, the proposed increase but very few have provided specifics as to why they can’t afford it and what sort of impact it will have on their lives.
Hopefully, your comment will open the door so that other residents can share their concerns too.
Thanks, Sandra
The Cove Assessment has been raised every year for the last seven years. The
Board needs to do some cost cutting as property owners are not cash cows waiting to be milked. Many property owners have lost their Home owners Insurance due to the hurricanes. My insurance has been cancelled by ALL-STATE. I was paying $800.00 a year for full coverage and now I have to pay $1700.00 a year and coverage is not as good. This amounts to a 100% increase in payments. There should be a freeze on any wage increases this year.
With costs of food and clothing and utilities going up our budget is stretched to the limit.
Property Owners have to control their spending in many ways because the economy has gone South and the has to do likewise.
Yes, on both counts.
Sally, I have spoken to Lynn. She has indicated that all of the Meals on Wheels people do notr qualify. She said that they all could afford to pay for their meals. I will try Ceil. I also wrote something up for the Update, hopefully Tom and Marci will have room. Oh, am I a stranger or just plain strange?
Sally, I agree with you that would be the most likely successful course of action. Careforce might serve as a line of contact as well, those perhaps along with word of mouth from casual contact. Almost none of these folks have computers or transportation and they most frequently are quite elderly.
One morning in the middle of summer an elderly lady at the Dollar Store began a conversation. She said she lived at the cove and did baby sitting for a neighbor who in exchange would pick up things for her since she had no car.
Sometimes her neighbor would drop her off at the Dollar Store while she went to other places.
She seemed excited at the opportunity to be there. I was more or less speechless. I have wanted to kick myself many times for not trying to glean more specific information from her. I suppose I am fearful that ladies that I do not know will think I am a dirty old man.
Dave, you might contact Ceil Campbell of CareForce or Lynn Ochs of the Meals on Wheels program. They might have some insight. Perhaps those in need would not want to contact you, a relative stranger, but they are in contact with Ceil and Lynn on a regular basis. Just a thought.
Sandra, thank you for the kind words.
Barbara, I have been trying to find some people in need too. There are several very generous people who have donated money so that they can be given Senior Dinners purchased through the Angel Food Ministries Program I have made postings on this Blog and also the FreeSpeak one. Unfortunately no one has contacted me. If you know an individual or several individuals please let me know their names or have them contact me directly. The requirements are 1. That they live in Spanish Cove. 2. That they qualify for any of these programs, Medicaid, Food Stamps, or the free prescription program run by the various drug companies. If you are anyone else has any thoughts how we can reach those in need please let me know. Donations to provide additional food during the current and future months are appreciated too. I am submitting something to the Update, hopefully there will be room for publication.
Sam’s statement i in the article “Board OKs, etc.”
Well. now I am confused, who is Jim referring to? Where is Sam’s statement? Maybe I’m the wrong Sam? Oh well.
Sam, no comments have been deleted. Thanks, Sandra
Thanks Jim, but it looks like my comments were deleted??
I real everything on saanisgcove.org and can find no mention of “Spanisg Cove Property Inspector”.
Sam, suggest that you visit the Cove’s Official sit for this info. http://www.spanishcove.org
thanks
What does the “Spanish Cove Property Inspector” do????
Barbara, what makes you think that more attention is paid to sexist jokes here on Cove Connections than other matters. Just because we’re having a little fun doesn’t mean that we’re not as concerned as you are.
Dave Danson and Dick Junkins are on the Finance Committee and have spent many hours working on Cove financial matters to make sure that we will continue to stay in good financial position regardless of the recession. Sally and I have worked for hours and hours making sure that Cove residents have accurate news and meeting information. What’s wrong with having a little fun in the process?
With regards to the Cove’s poor, elderly, residents if you will provide names and numbers (with their permission of course) I would love to meet them and write about their individual situations on Cove Connections. Names won’t be used if they wish to remain anonymous. My email address is sandrab@gulftel.com.
A CPA cannot be involved in the operations of a client, that the firm is also auditing. To do so, would create a conflict of interest.
Several years ago, we considered hiring a 2nd CPA firm to help with planning, budgeting, etc. The Finance Comm. decided that the extra expense was not warranted, at the time.
Dave, you are right we certainly don’t want a special assessment levied. However, the POASC through the Manager have the responsibility to reduce costs as much as possible, not only to ensure bills are paid without a special assessment, but also to protect the cove from the deep recession which has not hit here as yet. The reason I asked about the budget being reviewed by an outside CPA is earlier in one of the updates it was mentioned that the board was considering having the financials turned over to a private contractor. Possibly a cost analysis would have been helpful. What temperatures are the hot water tanks set at? I wash my clothes in cold water and they come out clean. How many people have to add cold water to the hot water to take a shower. Do we have automatic thermostats in the club houses that reuce the temperature during certain hours? Do we have our lights at the club houses on timers? All of these may seem minimal but added together can reflect a significant savings. Sacrifice is part of protecting our association. How many of the snow birds are auto related retirees? I don’t just mean the auto companies but suppliers as well. If they have 2 homes and have to choose between which they will keep and which they will sell or let go, which one do you think it would be? We are not immune from what is happening in other parts of this country and if we don’t take the appropriate steps we will be greatly disappointed in what will happen to the cove. It may be warm and fuzzy to think we can’t be touched but take a look at how many homes have gone up for sale recently and watch how many more are in the future.
This is a difficult time for this board or any board to try and know what to do, but to do nothing will potnetially lead us to where some major profit making corporations find themselves today. I don’t envy anyone’s position or authority. From what I have read here more attention is made of sexist jokes and that’s really too bad.
Barbara, you ask a number of interesting questions. Concerning the accountant , he has never reviewed our budget, nor should he. He is an independent outside accountant hired by the Board to make sure that our financial records were accurately kept and hopefully protect POASC against any impropriety. If he were to review the budget his independence might be jepordized. Up to now, in my opinion, to much emphissis has been placed on the short fall in revenues which as Sally indicates is of minor consiquence. There is however a more significant spending over budget situation. In my opinion, the proposed budget address your concern about possible economic fall out in The Cove, both for next year and future years. The last thing we want is a special assessment.
I certainly hope a LOT of the membership attends as well. Financial matters are extremely important right now. I’m not coming to be confrontational, I’m coming as a concerned property owner.
Okay Barbara, it’ll be an interesting meeting.
See ya there on the 8th!
Dave, you must be taking LSD or smoking those ‘hallucogenic’ mushrooms since you’re either dreaming or delusional?
And remember (as Dick likes to say):
Two elderly couples were enjoying friendly conversation when one of the men asked the other, “Fred, how was the memory clinic you went to last month?” “Outstanding,” Fred replied. “They taught us all the latest psychological techiniques – visualization, association – it made a huge difference for me.” “That`s great! What was the name of the clinic?” Fred went blank. He thought and thought, but couldn`t remember. Then a smile broke across his face and he asked, “What do you call that red flower with the long stem and thorns?” “You mean a rose?” “Yes, that`s it!” He turned to his wife. . .”Rose, what was the name of that clinic?”
And finally,
Once I had multiple personalities, but now we are feeling well.
Barbara, the Jan. 8 meeting is required by the Operating Procedures regarding the budget. See #3 below. In past years attendance has been very sparse. I hope you and many others will be there to ask questions. However, in the end, it is the board of directors that must take all factors into consideration and based on their knowledge of the state of the Cove, make the final decision. It is not an easy job. #5 below is somewhat confusing. All that is required is that property owners receive a copy of the finalized budget that was approved by the board of directors.
1. A proposed budget will be prepared by the budget sub-committee in time for presentations specified below.
2. The proposed budget will be presented to the Finance Committee at the December committee meeting, and presented to the Board of Directors, with the Finance Committees recommendations, at the next Board Meeting.
3. A presentation of the proposed budget will then be made to the General Membership as soon as practical. Notification to the residents will be published in the UPDATE and other communications media
4. The proposed budget will then be presented to the Board of Directors for their final review and approval, prior to the Annual Membership Meeting,
5. The approved budget will be presented to the membership at the annual meeting and published in the UPDATE.
Will the January 8, 2009 meeting allow for member participation? There are several items that may need further discussion, such as Beautification, Maint/Labor Payroll, Management & Office Payroll, And a further breakdown of all the different Maintaince accounts. Also, did our CPA have an opportunity to offer an opinion? Please don’t misunderstand me I’m not trying to be confrontational just concerned about the necessary belt tightening. We are not immune from the potential of an economic catrastophy next year and have either a contingency budget in place or a plan of action. Since my husband’s passing I have found numerous ways of cutting my expenses (probably not enough) but I continue to adjust and am anticipating what I hope and pray will not materialize. I’m not a pessimist I am optimistic to a degree, but when it comes to the Congress I get concerned.
I wish people would stop talking about a deficit. As far as I know, the only “deficit” is less income than projected in the current budget that was approved last January, based on history and projections. That was before the bottom dropped out of the real estate industry and everything else. As far as I know, the only income that is part of the operations budget is from transfer fees (and perhaps Building Permits). The Buy-In fees go to AR&R and the Impact Fees from developer construction is distributed half to AR&R and half to Capital Improvement. So yes, there is less income than projected, but tightening the belt has helped keep our heads above water.
Whoa, Dave, are you planning to venture outside any time soon? On second thought, we have an inside person who can do great harm. Best be on your good behavior.
SO THERE Sandra and Sally, go open the beer cans and prepare a decent meal. You can be barefoot, but I will keep away from this baby thing.
I am starting a petition to get a constitutional amendment started and passed to give women an absolute right to serve man, but without the right to say other than yes dear, and to only “publish “wittisms”" with the express consent, as expressed by a vote, of a 2/3 majority of all men involved. If you want to sign and or help this petition please let me know.
Yay, Sandra!
Touché.
Q. Why are beer cans so easy to open?
A. Look who’s drinking them.
Q. Why are blonde jokes so short?
A. So men can remember them.
Q. What’s the difference between a wise man and a dumb man?
A. Absolutely nothing. They both think they know everything.
And finally:
A man walks into a bar and finds a Genie in a lamp. The Genie will only grant him one wish. The man wishes to be a million times smarter than any man on earth. *POOF* the Genie turns him into a woman!
Gotcha!
After that one, I gotta go non-PC:
Q. How many men does it take to open a Budweiser?
A. None. It should be opened by the time she brings it.
Q. Why is a Laundromat a really bad place to pick up a woman?
A. Because a woman who can’t even afford a washing machine will never be
able to support you.
Q. Why do women have smaller feet than men?
A. So they can stand closer to the kitchen sink.
Q. Why do men pass gas more than women?
A. Because women won’t shut up long enough to build up pressure.
And remember:
All wives are alike, but they have different faces so you can tell
them apart.
The most effective way to remember your wife’s birthday is to forget it
once.
And finally:
Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street
with a bald head and a big gut, and still think they are beautiful.!!!!!
I have more, but at the risk of losing my life or something even more valuable I’ll stop right there!!
We are women, hear us roar,
In numbers too big to ignore
And we know too much to go back and pretend
’cause we’ve heard it all before
And we’ve been down there on the floor
No one’s ever gonna keep us down again
CHORUS
Oh yes we are wise
But it’s wisdom born of pain
Yes, we’ve paid the price
But look how much we’ve gained
If we have to, we can do anything
We are strong (strong)
We are invincible (invincible)
We are WOMEN!
calrification: An AR&R account is required by the Covenants. The annual contribution is determined by the schedule, which the Board attempts to comply with.
As long as we’re discussing AR&R, lets remember the recently enacted schedule is a desirable guideline, to be followed for the betterment of the Cove. Its not mandatory or contractual in any way.
To be sexist, and risk having this comment removed. Ben, Dick, women have good figures instead of being good with figures.
Dick, I do hope we can get some good discussion and ideas coming from what has started here.
I too would like to see you on the Board, Dick, but then again you would be a loss to CC. I think that is called mixed emotions. I do disagree with what Barbara indicated. It is not fair to the other Board Members if you attend one and miss two, Being on the Board is an important respnsibility. Run, or be appointed when you can devote yourself to the job. My two cents.
LOL, oh shut-up both of you!
Well, I’m pretty sure that’s the same way you explained it to me, Ben. Must be a “guy” thing! I haven’t quite been able to explain it to Patty, either.
I dunno know, Dick, it must be the uniform? Sandy would NEVER listen to my explanations of AR&R!
Dave #24: That’s the kind of reasoned discussion needed. The AR&R Schedule (proper name) does allow for a great deal of flexibility, not only in the Schedule itself, but in the funding set aside to support it. You and I (and others) have discussed this very subject in the recent past. I thought your ideas had merit then, and I do now.
Barbara: Thanks for your kind words. That’s something I will consider in the future, but for now, even though I’m only working part time, my business demands an inordinate amount of my time. In the meantime I’ll try to contribute to committees and learn more about the workings of the Cove. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you as well, and condolences from all of us on your recent loss.
I second the motion for Dick to join the board. He thinks things through, looks at both sides and doesn’t hold grudges if someone doesn’t agree with him. All important attributes for board members.
I cringe when someone says “Why raise assessments when we have all that money?” “That money” saved us from a special assessment after Ivan. “That money” replaced the pool dome when it was damaged. “That money” pays for needed replacement of maintenance equipment and repairs to the facilities. Many states require homeowner associations to have reserve funds. Alabama does not, but previous board members were wise to set up this savings account.
Barbara, I was on the Board, and Treasurer when the Board adopted the 2004-2005 budget which is one of the two large increases you asked about. Also on the Board with me was Sally McKinney, Ben Bonett, Jim Fletcher, John Lucas, I think Bill Miller, Harry Passmore, and Bill Tate. I am sorry but my memory fails me concerning who the other members were at the time That was a very difficult time. We had just gone throw I think it was 7 years of no increase in assessments. In addition the AR&R fund was badly underfunded due to mis-information from the then property manager. If I remember correctly the value of the fund was about $100,000. The assets it had to cover were basically the same as today. In addition, we had operated at an accumulated deficit of over $30,000 since the inception of POASC and it was necessary to cover that deficit . As Treasurer I proposed, and the Board agreed, that we increase the budget by the maximum amount allowed. I hope that answers your question about one of the occurances.
Mr. Junkins: Are you a resident of Alabama? You shuold run for the Board. If you are still working that could be handled with teleconferencing for board meetings. Remember you could attend 1, miss 2, attend 1, etc. and still remain a director and obviously have genuine intelligent input. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Dick, the AR&R schedule was finally adopted by the Board last year after many years of work. Like any other plan, it makes certain assumptions which can always be changed or questioned. Personally I think the road portion of it is on pretty solid ground. We own about 20 miles of road, I believe the plan is based on doing 1 mile a year, thus a complete cycle will be once every 20 years. I believe it is a necessity that we contribute enough to do that one mile every year, whether the money is actually used or not because in the long term it will have to be spent, and a 20 year life seems reasonable. I do not support the concept that we must pave every year, but we can not afford to not set aside the money in AR&R. That would leave us vulnerable to a special assessment in the future especially if road paving and storm cleanup should correspond. To me, a special assessment of even a couple of hundred dollars, and that could be small, all of which is required at once and quickly would be catastrophic to those members who find it most difficult to pay the $4 monthly increase called for in this budget. That being said, I do not believe it is necessary for us to ever have the total amount of money in AR&R that the schedule calls for since the money is a pool and it seems highly unlikely that we would ever need to replace everything at once. I believe the board should adopt a policy of either a % of full funding– 60% for example- or establish a maximum amount that the fund maintains. My thought is that someplace between $600,000 and $700,000 should provide for ample catastrophe protection. It would cover all the expenses of an Ivan and still allow for Road repaving in the same year. Under my concept, when the fund reaches that level it would be possible to suspend, or at least reduce contributions to AR&R which this year total over $200,000 when funds from the Impact Fee and the Buy In Fee are included. This is a significant portion of our discretionary spending.
Great explanation Dick, thanks!
Good, Ron. Let’s get back to the subject at hand. I’m not in charge of anything around here, so these are my personal opinions and observations, but I think I understand what’s been happening:
What is driving the Assessment increase? The Budget. And what drives the Budget? A reasoned projection of next year’s Income and Expenses based largely on logic, last & previous years’ experience and, to some degree, conjecture. This year’s Budget was understated on the Income side – we didn’t actually receive as much money in the Cove’s coffers as we thought we would. Expenses grew somewhat, but not significantly due largely to actions by the Property Manager and Board to hold spending back. Next year’s projected Budget takes those shortfalls into consideration, and levies an increased Assessment to balance the Income and Expense sides of the books.
People say, “Well, just cut expenses. There are things we can do without”. That may well be, but what’s the impact on those who have come to expect those services “we” don’t need? Others say, “Don’t pave. We can save lots of money by not paving.” And right there is a key issue, and it concerns AR&R.
The AR&R Budget, a separate budget from the general Cove Budget, establishes a 20-year projection for repair, maintenance and replacement of roads, buildings, the pool and other capital items in the Cove. Current policy is to ensure that we accumulate sufficient funds in AR&R to cover those anticipated expenses in the outyears. That’s the reason we have as much money as we do in the AR&R fund. It’s also the reason why postponing paving doesn’t necessarily result in reduced Assessments. The money must still be accumulated in the AR&R “savings account” because the paving will need to be done anyway, and the money must be available for it.
Now, one can argue for or against the policy of accumulating funds in AR&R. One may also argue about the AR&R Budget itself and the necessity of planned, regular repair and replacement of high-dollar items. But this year’s Budget shortfalls, couple with the need to maintain the AR&R fund, established the rules by which next year’s Budget was developed. Hence, the proposed Assessment increase.
I propose we take a hard look at the AR&R Budget, or Plan, and see if the assumptions that were made when the Plan was put together still hold water in light of the current economic climate. Several people have wondered whether we need as aggressive a paving plan as we have. Paving is the largest AR&R expense. In that respect I believe the AR&R Budget could use some tweaking. However, I also believe it is good policy to plan for long-term repair and repalcement of assets, and accrue sufficient funds to handle those expenses. But maybe there is some middle ground we can achieve to reduce some of those lomg-term expenses while ensuring the Cove standards, property values and amenities are maintained. There’s the challenge we face.
We haven’t previously been enduring times of financial hardship such as this is and most likely will be when increases were imposed. I am finished on this matter here. My conscience is clear.
Does anyone remember who the board members were during the last 2 large assessment increases?
Ahhhh, Jim Smith was right – or half right- on the other string. There have been two other years with higher percentage increases.
Hey Ron, We’ve incurred dues increases every year for several years now (see above) and I don’t seem to remember you being so outspoken or against them before? Of course, I didn’t know you back then which probably has something to do with it.
The proposed assessment increase will be less than $1.00 per week which, to me, is worth it considering the great place we live in.
Maybe it’s time to explore life as an elderly resident living within the Spanish Cove community.
As my hero Ron – Reagan, that is – would say, “There you go again!” Ron, I tried to give you a pass the last time you mentioned depriving the elderly, the poor or widows of their sustenance, but you just can’t resist the urge to make some sarcastic or left-handed remark about the apparently cold-hearted decision makers and their consciences, or their desire to benefit only a select few to the detriment of others. Thought you could let that dog lie, but I’ll put that in my “guess I was wrong” column.
rather subjective conclusion?
NeoCons were not conservative in the traditional sense. Obviously from the record of the recent administration they weren’t concerned at all with balanced budgets. They seemed to be primarily concerned with giving no bid contracts to Halliburton and Kellogg, Brown & Root after attacking nations that had constituted no threat to our nation.. I could never discern any true or idealistic political objectives.
Tories were the original supporters of the British throne in this country in opposition to what are now called our partriot forefathers. Their role in contemporary British political matters seem to have largely been abandoned or forgotten.
But as my exwife so frequently said, ” What the hell do I know?”
Hey, if you guys can live with decisions that deprive the elderly of their heat and medications and live with youe consciences, who am I to question?
PS: No Ben, Tories are ultra liberal ;D
LOL Dale, don’t you mean drive to Pensacola (and ask Sandra)?
My history ain’t too sharp, Ben. Turn to your left and ask Sandra.
kinda like a Tory?
It is a “New Conservative” that is the extreme right wing of the Republican Party. Several were in the Bush administration.
Dale, I’ll add the % tonite! What’s a ‘NeoCon’ ?
Ron, I too have been an Independent in the past. I guess a Reagan Republican at one time. I only meant to point out that I am not a heartless NeoCon.
It really helps to see the figures (facts) since it appears that the requested dues increase is in line with past increases especially in light of the current economic situation.
Ron, I am and have been concerned with the elderly too, but I also think POASC dues and financial aid / charity should be handled separately. POASC isn’t a charitable organization.
If POASC is unable to help help what else can be done? Dave and Terry have already offered the Angel Food Ministries program. Barbara’s idea of the form in the Update is another good idea. Surely there are other ways to help the elderly who are in trouble?
Dale, I really don’t think that only progressives care for the welfare of their fellow man. I believe there truly are compassionate conservatives… for most of my life I was one. Recent years have made me a yellow dog Democrat. I don’t see this as a political issue at all. I am sorry it has been misconstrued by some in that manner.
I am familiar with the procedures in place to approve the budget. It is not my position that the budget should be based on the needs of our most needy, although any of us could come to be numbered in their ranks. However, personally I could not live with failing to place their needs in the balance and considering all alternative options.
In my opinion your estimates for income were impacted by what I fear will prove to be only the beginning phase of our recession/depression and it will get worse, much worse.
If we do not choose to prioritize expenses to reduce out go we will eventually be forced to do so. Again my choice would have been to delay paving since inevitably reduced oil prices will most likely reduce those costs as well. Since that path was not chosen the only major budget items that would balance our needs without the increase are pool heating or personnel reduction. I personally would choose to delay paving over each of those. As I understand it that is no longer an option, thus my position.
It is not my goal to impose my will upon others but I will attempt to bring these issues to light since generally those folks have neither computers or transportation.
I too have been very critical of the board. Times like these call for a coming together for the benefit of the community. I have recently lost my husband and have a much clearer view of the seriousness of our time. People who are in need don’t want you to know. They are not used to being on the receiving end of charity (as they see it). Perhaps the Activities committee could put on a couple of benefit pot lucks where those who have the opportunity to donate to a special fund could contribute. Perhaps the Update coule include a confidentail form that pwople who cannot make their assessments due to fincial constraints could complete and return so the Association could direct aid to them. This all would have to be held in confidentiality of course. Years ago I worked at a Federally Funded Health Clinic where people were charged on their ability to pay.
We have started, or are trying to start a program to help those in need., We have purchased 20 prepared meals from Angel Food Ministries. 9 of these meals,m which are 1 pound nutritionally balanced and quite tasty, have been purchased through contributions from several caring people to be given to those in need. We are looking for additional contributions, and the names of people in need, so these meals can be given. If you would like to contribute please contact me. If you know of someone in need please have them contact me. Admittedly this is a very small start, but everything has to have a beginning
Ron, I appreciate your comments above. We worked very hard on this budget based on our unfortunate estimates last year. The Finance Committee develops the Budget well in advance of the time it takes effect. Last year our estimates on real estate activity obviously turned out to be terribly off the mark.
I have a hard time, however, basing our budget on the needs of the most needy in our community. The Budget also has to be approved by both the Finance Committee as a whole, and the Board of Directors which it did unanimously in both cases.
I am a Progressive and voted for Obama, but this budget has to apply to everyone in our community. My own recommendation is that someone, or group take the responsibility to search out programs that would benefit those in need. They would be in the best position to do it, and more professional in the way it would be handled.
Sandra, I wish you would have included a column for % increase as well.
Sandra, with your permission I would like to state here that I have never questioned the good intentions and sense of responsibility of any or all the board members. I believe the committees and the board have struggled with this and all associated issues. If I had been in their shoes I would have probably chosen to postpone paving except as was required for safety. I wasn’t involved in the decision and I am aware there are issues that compromise that choice as well.
My concern is for the people here who are already having to choose between their medications, food, and heat or other necessities. In this present time of unprecedented financial hardship in a non-agrarian society I believe we all share a responsibility to make extreme and difficult choices in matters of financial priorities. Thank you.