POASC BOARD OF DIRECTORS
REGULAR SESSION
Thursday, June 18, 2009
10:00 a.m.
CALL TO ORDER
ROLL CALL
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE – Tom Pinkerton
APPROVAL OF MINUTES – Regular Meeting, May 21, 2009
CHAIRMAN’S REPORT
MANAGER’S REPORT
TREASURER’S REPORT
COMMITTEE REPORTS – Including Date, Time and Location of Next Meeting
FINANCE – Dale Morsette
ACTIVITIES – Judy Deeter
ADMINISTRATIVE – Sue Huff
COMMUNICATIONS – Dale Morsette
PDM – Frank Meier
ROADS & DRAINAGE – Tom Pinkerton RULES – Joan Fletcher
SAFETY – De Dickey
REGIONAL CONCERNS – Sharon Bemis
Board Members Comments/Questions Regarding Committee Reports UNFINISHED BUSINESS
NEW BUSINESS
Change in Covenant Section 8.38 Permitted Uses and Improvements – First Reading FINAL COMMENTS – Manager & Board of Directors
OPEN FORUM – Property Owners
NEXT REGULAR SESSION – July 16, 2009 at 10:00 a.m. MEETING ADJOURNED
Sally, You are the nicest lady. Perhaps our residents can learn these rules too.
Perhaps the board members do not know that an Executive Session is held so that plans and issues that are sensitive may be discussed in private. This includes personnel matters, litigation, buying and selling property, etc. This means that no one may discuss with outsiders what transpires in the meeting. Minutes are taken, but no tape is kept and only one copy of the minutes are kept in a secure place.
Many years ago when I was chairman, information was leaked and the person who did it was severely chastised. It is a very serious infraction of the rules of procedure for both private and public corporations as well as governmental entities.
Roberts Rules says: A member can be punished under disciplinary procedure if he or she violates the secrecy of an Executive Session. Anyone else permitted to be present is honor-bound not to divulge anything that occurred.
The board, however, has an obligation to disclose any action taken as a result of an Executive Session.
The information that has been discussed on the blogs and at the meeting never should have been known by anyone outside of the board of directors and those who may have notified them of the problem. The board should have had the time to discuss the information, investigate and take action before being bombarded by property owners who may know only a portion of the story.
It is their fiduciary responsibility to be conscientious guardians of our funds. Some of us are not making it any easier for them. Why are we so quick to condemn? Why do we think our friends and neighbors, who also happen to serve as volunteers on our board of directors, are crooks? Is it because they have different ways of addressing problems than we? Does that make them wrong? Or crooks?
As I was proofreading the Optimist Club Grits and Bits this week I read the Optimist Creed. I won’t give it all to you, but here’s a couple of things that I feel are apropos.
“To think only of the best, to work only for the best, and to expect only the best.”
“To forget the mistakes of the past and press on to the greater achievements of the future.”
“To give so much time to the improvement of yourself that you have no time to criticize others.”
I feel these are words to live by, as property owners, members of the board and wouldn’t it be great if the whole world were optimists?
This is cut and pasted from Free Speak. Is it true?
Anonymous said…
Charlie Davison was proven to be completely innocent in the meeting and the allegations are totally false. Three members of the board are trying to destroy Spanish Cove as we know it and if you let them take control you might as well all move out.
June 19, 2009 6:16 PM
If this is true it disturbs me that someone obviously broke confidentiality. If it is not true, who is trying to stir up trouble?
Yes, a hot tub has been considered in the past, along with a deck extension between the pool and the Bay.
Don’t recall what happened to the deck and hot tub idea. It just kinda fizzled?
You certainly may bring it to the PDM committee again, tho.
When I read the first post I was going to make a reply, but then read on and became agast at some of the posts.
Well, it is Friday, and I still have something to say…….. while I do not favor a workout room or place to play pool at the present time; cost estimates and looking for improvements is never a bad idea. Now I will say Mrs. W and I would like an outdoor hot tub for adults in the pool deck area overlooking the bay. Was wondering it that has been kicked around in the past.
I have never met anyone on this site face to face either what I know of (but may have said “Hello” on the pier, RV Clubhouse, pool, yard sale), but never felt challenged or was put down. Next time I come to visit I may look some of you up, hehehe.
From now on, I will use my full name. I guess I vainly thought “everyone” knew me by now.
Marge -
For the most part, the members on this forum are less than a dozen, so they all know each other by their first names. When a name pops up that they don’t recognize, they will challenge you.
Especially in a disagreement.
It was very impressive that so many people took the time out of their day to attend the board meeting yesterday. I think this shows that if we get out and let the property owners know that they really need to be aware of the decisions that are being made to our community. I for one have sat back and not attended these meetings since I do have a day job but felt it important enough to close to attend the meeting.
It was my understanding that the issue at hand would be discussed, but after getting to the meeting we were told this was off limits until the board had their private meeting. We will all be waiting for the report the board will be giving to the property owners. Will we have to wait for the next board meeting or will this be given before? I do hope sooner as then all the “hear-say” will be put to rest.
I know there were others that would have like to ask some questions but at least they were made aware of what some of us had been hearing and our concerns.
On a lighter note Dale if you were to go back on the last letters written there were Ron, BM, Bill, Sandra, Chief, Ben, Dave and Sam that did not have a last name and I am sure you took their information as “Legitimate” I have no reason to not want anyone to know who I am but saw most did not sign their last name.
Marge
I would like to express my personal gratitude to all the recent new and newly returned contributors I believe Spanish Cove will benefit from the diversity of viewpoints.
does the KGB perform audits?
Barbara you promised “never” to appear again on CC, what happened?
Hey, Chief how about a better idea?
Didn,t Bernie Madoff use independent auditors? Figures don,t lie but liars do figure!
LOL, Okay, whatever Chief
Who ever got the idea that the Auditors that we use EVERY year are not independent?
Well, it looks like the summer is off to an OPPRESSIVE start in SC. It is nice and quiet, cool and beautiful from where I am, but I just had to let ya’ll know I see you. Just a little refresher for those novice cc bloggers. This web site originally was designed to promote chaos and conflict. Don’t believe me google coveconnections and read up on the past year and a half. Somebody needs to get a job and see what else is going on in the world. Our POASC doesn’ care what the property owners know. They do their own thing and have their “groupies” to back them up. Don’t get too rattled, let them feed on themselves. But if they try to intimidate you about “slander” check with the chairman of the board as he is very knowledgeable on this subject. Enjoy the rest of the summer I certainly will!
Marge, I have a problem with your comment concerning your statement, “I do believe that if one hears such a accusation about how money has been spent that it is only the right thing to do to make sure this is dealt with legally”. An accusation is just that an accusation. It may have merit, and it also can be no more than a malicious lie. I believe that we all have to have confidence that those we put in a position of responsiblility do the job given them as best they can. I would like to compliment and concern our Board expressed, the speed with which they reacted, and the dedication with which both Ben and Dale carried out the tasks assigned to them. I do not feel it was necessary or desireable to hurt either the reputation or health of an individual who has given a lot to Spanish Cove. If the facts turn out that he was guilty of wrong doing I am sure our Board will act responsibly, just as the Board I was part of acted in the Karen Black case. Until that time it is absolutely unnecessary to fan the fires of susspicion. How would you feel if you, acting as a Real Estate Agent were accused of doing something improper, such as filing false tax returns, or not properly handling deposit money you received and this was posted as a “I heard” question on a blog, facebook, or twitter? This in affect is what has happened to Charlie. If guilty he must be punished to the full extent of the law, if not guilty look at the pain which has been caused him. I believe that he will be found to have not broken any law, not misused any of our money, or any of the many other things I have heard. I am truly sorry that he has been put through the pain of the past days. Charlie, get better quickly, we need you.
Marge I appreciate your identifying yourself, it makes your posting much more legitimate. The one thing missing in your response above is – what if the people involved are innocent? What has happened to their personal reputation?
Our Auditors ARE independent. The group we use is headed by Wayne Grueloe who is also a County Commissioner. If more audits are needed to satisfy property owners, that can be accomplished. It just flies in the face of our cost cutting efforts. Our current audit costs ~$5,000. An additional audit would probably be significantly higher.
Marge, now that I know you are a ‘real’ person I appreciate your input. However, I would ask that you take into account the affect of all this on the people involved if they are innocent. I think since the “Karen Black Affair” those of us with fiduciary responsibilities, and Board Members in general, are sensitive to suggestions of misdeeds. I think if you had just contacted whatever Board Member(s) you trusted it could have been handled in the same way, but without all the unproven damage to the individuals involved.
Interesting Marge-your report very closely tracks what we intend to report. Activity of this type creates a receivable, rather than a liability.
I find it hard to believe that so much importance is being put on someones name when the issue at hand is such a serious one. I did NOT say that what I had HEARD was verified I had said I had HEARD it and was asking if anyone else knew more then I knew, As usual there are many different hear-says so I believe this needs to be cleared up with FACTS. As to an audit, I truly believe we need an independent audit. This is a very serious accusation and if it is false then an independent audit will clear this mess up and the facts will be known to all property owners.
I do believe that if one hears such a accusation about how money has been spent that it is only the right thing to do to make sure this is delt with legally. If it is found to be true that money was spent for personal use then I can’t believe this can be called a “misunderstanding”. A business credit card it just THAT it is just for business and not to be used as a personal float time or loan with the intention of paying back. If that were the case it should have been accounted for as a liability to be paid (with interest if the case ) I have kept books for companies an at no time did I spend money for my personal use and think this was part of my pay or that since it’s a personal bonus. Every check that was written or charge on a credit card had to have an invoice attached with a full explaination of what it was for, including a proper expense account. If it was personal then it should show a separate account for personal expense which would be very easy to see and would show on the expense account. Also as the bookkeeper it was my responsibilty to have all this for when the accountant viewed the books.
Are we going to address this at the open board meeting or is this going to be off limits to the property owners. It is the right of the owners to know what problems we are having and how this is being handled. I do hope we will have a very good turn out and I as most have not gone to the meetings often. That will change and I will become more active. It would be nice if these meetings would be held after work as many of us have day jobs. In the past there has been to much name calling, and I am sure that is one of the reasons people don’t want to get involved. And Dave it doesn’t help when people are personally attacked and mis-quoted when you are simply asking a legitimate question and not making accusations. This is a main reason most people would rather keep out of the cove’s business and just ignore the problems that go on, which is what I have been doing most of the years I have lived here. I really was furious when this was brought to my attention and believe it wrong if I had just ignored the problem as we have been doing for so long. If it is so important my name is Marge Streeter and I am a property owner and have lived here for 6 years.
Just to clarify Ben’s earlier comment (that’s Ben Bonnet for those few who don’t know either he nor Dave Danson). The auditors were notified not specifically for the current activity. They were scheduled to do their annual Audit “on or about June 15″, we simply asked them to confirm what we had done and see if anything else is needed.
These baseless RUMORS are harmful to the people involved that work hard at their jobs to make the Cove a good place to live.
Mr. Lovin do you understand the term “slander”? You are making accusations with NO foundation at all. If you aren’t aware of it, I suggest you look it up in a dictionary.
On the Google dictionary, along with the definition there are ads by Personal Injury lawyers dealing with such actions. As you probably know, they charge their client nothing. They take a large share (30% + expenses) of whatever money is awarded. That, of course, makes them very voracious in the pursuit of their cases.
If you deny that you are using a false identity, please identify how you can be reached. My full name is shown on this posting, my address is 2824 Avenida Alberto, and my phone number is 961-2265. How about yours?????
Some of these posts are reading more like Freak Speak than what I’m accustomed to seeing here at CC. I read accusations, innuendo, hearsay, Board trashing, personal and collective insults and more. Enough, already.
Maybe for a change we’ll actually get a turnout higher than the usual 1 or 2 percent of the membership at tomorrow’s Board meeting . And maybe more respectful and respectable than some have been here.
Robert, my last name is Danson. I have never hidden this and I am listed in the Cove Telephone Book, and the Century Telephone Book. I never criticized you for using your full name, if it is actually your name. I just pointed out that the name being used is not listed in any of 3 sources. I feel this is strange and anyone reading your accusations of cover up should be aware of that fact. If you re-read Ben’s posting you will learn that he is Treasurer of POASC, surely if you read the Update you will know his last name. As Treasurer, Ben is responsible for the protection of POASC assets.
Personally, I think your accusations towards Charlie, Ben, and Dale are dispicable.
No, do you?
anyone know Robert from Birmingham?
Although I am concerned with the state of affairs, I feel it is important that the entire board be made aware of all the facts and then make a decision. Perhaps that decision may not be made until the auditor has his say. I don’t know if I would rely on the current POASC auditor. I think I might want an independent opinion. It is the board’s duty to find a solution. It is our duty to wait to see what that decision is before making accusations. From what I hear, some serious breaches of good financial practices have occurred, but they may not be criminal. Let’s see what the auditor has to say.
Does any of us truly know what the “state of affairs” is. I, for one, don’t. But I have grown to trust Charlie Davison and I am hopeful that no such supposed missteps took place. Innocent until proven guilty from my perspective
Robert, You’ll have a chance to present your questions to the Board of Directors at tomorrows meeting. No information will be presented on Cove Connections tonight!
Well spake, Sandra. A voice in the wilderness.
Thank you, he who posts as “Dave- no last name”,
for disapproving of my full name! I was responding to a post by “Marge- no last name” who said that she wanted to know about the misappropriated funds (as do I). I read a post by “Ben- no last” name saying that no money is missing.
“Ben-no last name” did say that no money is missing, but I would like to have him say that no money was ever missing, misappropriated and paid back, or anything else improper, and sign his full name.
So far ALL of you are anonymous, and one (“Dave- no last name”)of you is criticizing my FULL name!
Someone tell me that they know that what I have heard is wrong! That will give me and other readers more solace than the criticizing of my name. What are the facts, Ben, Dave, Dale Moresette?
Let’s speak on issues, not names! What are the facts, if you know- I’m listening!
Robert Lovin (I am sure that this is my FULL name- what is yours, Dave- no last name?)
Robert: Why in the world are you and “Marge” spreading this innuendo and hearsay? So you’ve heard something. So what? That then gives you the urge to jump on CC and start your little “fact-finding” mission? Something to stir the pot and create distrust and animosity, I suppose? At first you state outright that you only have hearsay knowledge; then immediately thereafter state: “You don’t think that I am the only person who knows about Charlies “misappropriation” of Spanish Cove Funds to pay his daughters bills- do you?”. This is like yelling, “Fire!” in a theater. People should not be entitled to drop these incendiary statements and walk away. This is all very disappointing.
As mentioned in the above comment the Board of Directors will meet tomorrow morning regarding this matter. Ben and Dale will present their findings then and the Board will vote on the issue.
Independent auditors will also begin their audit soon.
The Board of Directors is doing everything in their power to handle this matter.
Give them a break and allow them to do their job!!!
Are you crazy or drinking? Haven’t you read what has been written?
Yes,
Sam, exactly what I’m talking about!
And if it were theirs- only their money missing- you know they’d want to know if this guy has been doing it all along (since he’s been here).
So why don’t they want to have an independant audit- with the focus on overseeing the results of his administration?
This is what makes me curious, because I want to know! I want to sue for the return of any missing money- because it’s mine!
(along with eveerybody elses’ in Spanish Cove)
So why don’t they want to know? This is what implicates them as possible co-conspiritors!
And this Charlie Davidson- if he’s clean- should also want an independent audit- to clear his name! You would, wouldn’t you?- if you were accused of something that you didn’t do!
So… I only have hearsay knowledge. There’s no way that I could ever get access to the necessary information to make sure for myself. That’s why a proper investigation is necessary!
You don’t think that I am the only person who knows about Charlies “misappropriation” of Spanish Cove Funds to pay his daughters bills- do you?
And what about the Board of Directors fiduciary duty to the residents of Spanish Cove- to protect their money and look out for their best interests?
Has this been served by allowing him to pay back what he took, and not audit the books for the period of his tenure to make sure it hasn’t happened before?
Of course not- they have put themselves in a position to be sued!
Robert Lovin
Many years ago, a person I admire greatly, my father said to me…Dave always remember when someone argues with a fool there are two. Amen.
Thank you Sally for your words of wisdom.
Thank you Ben for your report on what you have found, and what will be done.
To the readers of this blog. Before putting to much faith in what Robert Lovin has written be aware that there is no Robert Lovin, or any Lovin, listed in either the Spanish Cove or Century Tel telephone books. I could mot find one using an internet search either. To me, something stinks. I have known both Ben and Dale for many many years. Ben served as Assistant Treasurer when I was Treasurer. If there is one thing I would stake my life on it is that neither one would participate in any kind of coverup concerning this or any other Cove matter. I sincerely wonder what someone or group is out to accomplish through these innuendos and lies.
Flash! Board members pay assessments, too!
Smells like the coverup that I expected. I heard that charlie was being required to repay the Spanish Cove funds that he used to pay his daughter’s $900.00 (approx) phone bills. Is this what you refer to when you say that no money is missing- that the person who stole it has nowd returned it?
Robert Lovin
Dale Morsette(Finance Chairman) and I (Treasurer) were assigned the task of investigating the allegations regarding possible misuse of POASC funds. These discrepancies occurred in the 1st and 2nd Quarter of our 2008 Fiscal Year.
We completed our investigation today(Wednesday)and will report our preliminary findings to the Board in an Executive session on Thursday morning. This has been reported to our Auditors and we are awaiting their arrival at any time. The Auditors will be asked to verify our findings.
The Board will decide how to proceed when all of the facts are in hand.
I can report that all POASC funds have been accounted for. NO money is missing!
Children!!! Stop the nonsense! Wow, I didn’t think I’d ever be using those words again. Let’s get down to the nitty gritty. We all have our ideas about how things should be done. At some point in time we will come to a consensus. That’s how it was done when we redid the pool. Some wanted a permanent building, some wanted the dome, some wanted to fill it with cement. We came up with a viable plan and asked the property owners to approve it and they did. It took quite a while to get it to the voting point. From what I understand, a proposal for a building at the shuffleboard courts is being studied and estimates are being collected. Except for the PDM committee no one else has been asked for an opinion. Surely there are other alternatives. How about adding on to the back of the clubhouse? How about a building near the tennis courts? How about a building with small meeting rooms as well as an exercise room and billiards room? When should it be done? Should it be done at all? All questions to be discussed, but I don’t think The Update is the vehicle. Even a survey in the Update won’t do it. Perhaps a mailing with a return envelope. I’m not real sure, but surely we can discuss it without rancor. It has no place in an honest, fruitful discussion. Perhaps we should have a copy of the minutes of the last PDM meeting so we can be sure of what exactly was discussed and what was decided, if anaything.
About the misappropriation of funds- I too have heard that Charlie Davidson has been caught useng cove funds to pay his daughters bills, and that their are cove employees that allege that there is much more to find. Also heard that the board has decided to excuse- (rather than prosecute Charlie and require a full audit) this behavior, and to call it a error in judgment!
They don’t want to audit to find out the extent of his thievery?
I believe they would if it were their money!
Robert Lovin
Robert, you present your hearsay with such authority, and you report that there is much more to find. Now you say that theBoard has decided to excuse these ephemeral misdeeds. Quite a bit to swallow, folks
Dave, your perceptions of “reading between the lines” are both comical and childish. I could advise you in your responses by simply saying that verbosity does not compensate for a total lack of reason and logic. You compose your responses and I will compose mine.
I said that a notice could be placed in the “Update”. As is your practice you misinterpteted and/or misunderstood.
I stated that this was not an appropriate forum for input from a majority of the property owners. This is true because most never visit this forum. Many of the neediest do not have computers or transportation.
These same people cannot afford the Angel Food packages and yet still will not accept charity. Some of them frankly choose not to associate with you and they have expressed as much to me. They do not trust you to keep their identities confidential. By the way I assume that you must be aware that the principals of that organization were recently under criminal investigation.
Where I live, where I choose to spend my time nor nothing about my lifestyle or choice of activities is of your concern. Quit believing erroneously that what individuals do here or how their money is spent are matters under your purview.
I can not imagine what makes you fantasize that others want you or people of like mind or the lack thereof to choose how to spend their money. Nothing anywhere says we should make it a goal to spend funds we do not have to build things we do not need in economic times such as these.
Ron, reading between the lines of your comment, “Your present comment establishes that anything thoughtful, reasoned and respectful would not involve you.” seems to me to have elements of name calling. You could have said simply that you are not in agreement, but respect his opinion.
As far as assessment increases on those that can not afford it. I have read this statement in different formats for over a year. Yet, when offers to help anyone in this situation are made no one comes forward to be helped. I started the Angel Food program almost 6 months ago with just such a thought. I even solicited and received contributions from residents willing to provide free food where it was needed. I publicized this information, still not one person in need came forward. Is it possible that there are no such people actually living here? I also find it interesting that those who have placed orders for Angel Food on the outside, at least, do not give the impression of requiring help. They are people availing themelves of convenience, quality, and price.
My support, and or desire, to see an improvement is not ephemeral, your word. I guess I have a different view of what The Cove can, and should be, compared to you. Ammenities are what sets Spanish Cove aside from other places we can live. I am sure when you bought your house the seller mentioned them as a selling point. If you did not want, or need any ammenities you probably bought in the wrong place, or the wrong reasons. I bought here knowing and because of what is offered. I love living here, utilize the availability of the facilities, am willing to pay the cost of those I use and those I don’t, and would like to see more and different facilities offered to those who would use them. To me, that is what Spanish Cove is about. I know it has been said before, but, the increases in assessments i have experienced since I first became a member of POASC have been to say the least very very low. In 1989 I paid $27. Today, 20 years later, I pay less than double that.
Please explain to me why, in your opinion, this is not the proper for discussion and input. Cove Connections gives everyone interested an oportunity at their convenience to learn the facts and what orthers think. The Update only can give a limited amount of space to any discussion. As has been argued many times, day, evening, weekend meetings all have some inconvenience to everyone. In addition there are those who dont want to be known or seen who have an opinion. They too can be heard here.
There has been some talk about mis-appropriation of the Spanish Cove funds. Does anyone out there know what is being done to verify if this is true or not. Is this going to be brought up at the scheduled Board meeting on Thursday?
So Marge: What’s the source and veracity of that source? Kind of a Scatter-Gunned approach to getting the word out, eh. “Mis-appropriation” has such a ring to it. That’ll get their ears perked up! But what if it’s wrong? What if it’s a misunderstanding? Who issues the apology and where will one be able to read that??
Dave, what name calling? I believe you are trying to be “inciteful”. So far the only names that I have used were Mr. Junkins and Dave. Pretty rough, huh?
I am sick and tired of assessment increases to our property owners who cannot afford them to satisfy the ephemeral goals of individuals such as yourself. Others have stated similar convictions here in this discussion who definitely would find no financial hardship in further increases.
This is not the appropriate forum for discussion and input from a majority of our ptroperty owners. Maybe a notice in the “Update” from the board that input was to be sought at a specific time and place or something of that nature would suffice.
Here’s a great bottom line for you, Ron. Those who cannot afford to pay our eminently reasonable assessments may well not be able to afford to live in Spanish Cove. Not everyone can live exactly where they want to live, and health, personal, family, age and financial changes may force changes in peoples’ lives.
So now I’m thoughtless, callous, a true Billy Goat Gruff standing under the bridge, but these are facts. Hard facts, but facts nonetheless. And it’s not the Cove’s problem. The POASC Board is charged with protecting and advancing the interests of the Corporation, guided by the Cove Documents and the stated (voted) positions of the membership. We’re not a social welfare organization, nor do we take action favorable to the few while ignoring the desires of the many. A representative democracy, with a bit of Corporate Board thrown in.
Does your definition of “inciteful” include anyone who does not agree with you or your agenda and objectives? Naah, I will just go ahead and say that in my opinion that is the situation.
I stated nothing of a nature that could be interpreted by any reasonable individual as having the intent of inciting anyone. I merely stated my own opinion. I don’t need or seek your endorsement or approval on that or any other matter.
If given an opportunity to express their feelings I believe that most of our property owners realize that this is not the time for capital improvements.
Come on Ron. The fact that there is discussion here now is an indication of no bull doze job being done. I am sick and tired about comments that we have to wait until the economy improves. If we all did that on all jobs there would never be an improvement because we all would be spending no money.
That being said… I like the concept of a building, but I think much more planning needs to be done before we make any dcisions. Stop being a nay sayer. Leave your cave every once in a while and get out and use some of our wonderful ammennities. You might even see there is a need to add to them for the benefit of all.
One last thing, please stop the name calling. A difference of opinion does not indicate lack of thinking on the part of the other person. If you feel there is a need to be insulting, I am sure you can find other outlets where this kind of conversation is appreciated.
Well, I don’t see any “bull doze” job here, but then I’m not always looking for one. At least I can derpend on you for your inciteful (no, I didn’t misspell ‘insightful’) comments. Thank you once again.
Mr. Junkins, the comment I referenced made no mention of the criteria you later referenced. It mentioned a drawing, estimates and a source of funding. Looks like most of the elements of a bull doze job to me.
I believe input should be sought from the property owners as to timing, advisability, features, location and other matters should precede design and estimates.
Your present comment establishes that anything thoughtful, reasoned and respectful would not involve you.
When I recommended thoughtful, reasoned, passionate yet respectful discussion, I guess I forgot about you, Ron. What makes you think anyone is trying to “sneak” anything by the property owners? As for funding, the Capital Improvement Fund is designed to fund items such as this. Where’s the beef? Or did you just realize there was an available pot to stir?
I am of the conviction that after the five to ten years that it takes our economy to recover, if then, we will have plenty of time to plan a building. Most likely our priorities will differ by then.
If you refer to Mr. Junkins initial comment, he stated that the funding would come from the capital improvements fund as per the intents of the committee. How is that for intent to sneak it by the property owners?
I feel that until we can go back to the necessary items now being neglected, like roads etc. we don’t need to be building. This is a nice proposal and could be brought up in the future, but until things improve, I like others on fixed incomes feel we should do the necessary things for the near future.
I think this needs to be put in perspective. There are NO plans for projects in FY2009. This is looking forward to perhaps 2010, or 2011, if done at all. It takes a great deal of time to deal with the issues surrounding a project like this, and nothing – NOTHING – is being fast-tracked or trying to be snuck past Property Owners.
My understanding is that this idea was proposed in the PDM Committee, which is where it should have been raised. There is certainly no reason not to gather costs, ideas and other data. That is how you have information to discuss.
True Dale but why an exercise room?
There are other projects that would benefit Cove residents more such as the club house expansion or the club house kitchen renovation.
As the economy improves it’s very likely that the inactive sections that are reserved for new housing will begin new construction and, as a result, the number of residents will increase. Surely, it would be better to prepare for the future by expanding these facilities rather than to obtain proposals for a project that only a few support?
Good points, Sandra. For the record, I’m in favor of the new building in principle, but I believe we need much more discussion and back & forth on this. I’m also in favor of preserving and even expanding Cove amenities, including expansion of the Main Clubhouse and potentially a kitchen renovation, as well as a revovation of the RV Clubhouse (maybe add a couple new shower stalls, eh?)
Yeah, the economy is having troubles. We’re all going to feel much more pain in the next five to ten years. But I see no need to do the ostrich thing and neglect future growth, current maintenance, equipment replacement, paving when necessary and retaining the best Property Manager and office/maintenance staff we can afford.
I’m hopeful this site will encourage thoughtful, reasoned, passionate yet respectful discussion about this and many other matters. Things are going well right now. Hope it continues.
I would not support the project of another building at this time.
So many of us are on fixed incomes and we have had increases in so many avenues that we do not need more in this economy.
So there is money to build a new buildng, it takes money to run it and guess where that would come from.
I for one am only in favor of conservation of our funds at least until the economy fully recovers. I don’t advocate spending our money on anything so trivial in nature as this when we can’t afford upkeep items such as paving or even shower heads.
I believe we already have enough “trouble… right here in River City”.
Would this have to be brought to a vote of the property owners for final approval?
From what I understand, the cost would be kept under the 5% limit requiring a vote of the property owners.
You’re right, Sally. I think we may hear something about this at the Board meeting. There was a great deal of discussion at the PDM meeting about the possibility of constructing an exercise/billiards room. I believe the intent at this time is to procure several estimates and present the overall plan/idea to the Board for their review. I don’t think the committee is looking for any final approval at this time, although they have discussed a proposed drawing and one estimate from a contractor.
While the committee was discussing potential costs, we heard that the initial funding would come from the Capital Improvement Fund, which currently has sufficient money for construction. The follow-on issue is, of course, ongoing maintenance, utilities, insurance, etc. Mr Ken Streeter, who was a guest at the meeting, proposed that fees be charged for use of the facility. The idea received mixed responses, as the Cove has not charged such fees in the past. But the idea is on the table and will likely be a part of future discussions.
The committee agreed with the Chairman, Frank Meier, that additional estimates (not Bids) should be procured and the idea presented to the Board for their review and discussion. I don’t know whether additional estimates will have been received in time for the upcoming Board meeting, but I’m assuming they will. As I wrote earlier, I don’t think the intent at this time is to seek firm approval or establish a specific timeframe for construction. I think the intent is to get the idea out there for additional discussion and definition. Cove Connections may help move that debate along. From what I’ve seen here and elsewhere, there are some strong opinions on both sides of the issue
I wonder how the property owners, whose assessements were recently increased, feel about this?
Although it is not listed on the agenda, I understand the PDM Committee is planning to present a proposal to build an exercise/pool table building on the site of the shuffleboard courts at a cost of $45,000. If you have an interest in this proposal, I suggest you attend the 10 a.m. board meeting on Thursday, June 18 at the Cove Clubhouse.