In a Special Meeting following the marathon Board Meeting of May 21st, 2009, the POASC Board voted to reduce the number of available shower heads in the RV Clubhouse bathrooms from three to one. Ever since Cove Maintenance took the action to do so, there has been much discussion about that action, and the rationale for taking it.
As I understand it, the discussion has touched on four principal points:
- The Cove will save on water usage and the propane to heat the water.
- Land Harbor is no longer a “Campground” and the showers are unnecessary, since most residents do not own RVs and have permanent showers available to them in their homes.
- Property owners who do not use the RV Clubhouse showers should not have to financially support an amenity they don’t use.
- The RV Clubhouse showers have been subjected to theft and abuse; the abuse being that a few residents living in “Park Model” homes with regular showers are using the RV Clubhouse to reduce their water and electricity bills, are wasting water and propane and are untidy in their use of the showers.
To address those points:
- Obviously, reducing the availability of showers will reduce cost. I can’t quantify the reduction, but I wonder how significant it is?
- Land Harbor is not designated as a “Campground”, but it IS designated as the Cove’s area for “Recreational Vehicle Lots”, and has many RV owners who live there full- and part-time. RV owners are accustomed to using the facilities at campgrounds where they set up, which gives them a break from the cramped showers and small water heaters in their RVs. I believe that is a reasonable expectation.
- Property owners are required to support many amenities they don’t use. This one is no exception.
- As I understand it, the theft has been minimal, and now that we have a Fob System should be more controllable. Additionally, the Fob System and our Security can help identify those who are abusing their privileges. I believe those in homes with “regular” showers should be using their own facilities on a regular basis. Maybe discussions with those specific individuals might be in order.
My bottom line: Restore the RV Clubhouse shower heads. Address individual theft and abuse on an individual basis. Evaluate the true cost of operation vs. the goodwill, convenience and utility of the amenity as well as the future usefulness of the showers in a post-Ivan type environment.
Tags: Clubhouse, Cost, maintenance, RV, Showerheads
Thanks to all who posted here in response to this article. I’m sure your inputs were read and considered by the Board. Additionally, I’m sure some of you spoke with a Board Member, or a neighbor, and generated the necessary interest. This was a relatively minor issue, but important to many, especially in Land Harbor.
The outcome – the reversal of a unanimous vote by another unanimous vote, shows that the membership truly has the power to influence decisions in a respectful and respectable manner. And I believe Cove Connections played a key role in providing the catalyst to make this change possible.
I had my grandkids visiting this weekend, and I had occasion to visit thye area in question. Pipes in two stalls had beem removed at THE WALL, and what looks like insulating foam has been sprayed into the pipes. This vandalism can be restored, but the sealant must be removed and new pipes that were attached. Maybe not a small job, and worst case is that they’ll need to rip into the wall to replace the pipes full of insulation foam.
I also looked at the shower pans. All three need repair or replacement. If repaired, they need a GOOD cleaning, the likes of which I’m sure they’re not seeing lately. Ultimately. the walls of the showers will need re-tiling or a very efficient wash & seal job to get them up to appearance and sanitary standards.
We need to end this tempest-in-a teapot (or coffee pot, Dan) and get the parties involved to propose well-thought-out solutiond that work. How abpout it? Nobody should end uo with a seizure or heart attack obver this, and someting may actally get acomplished.
Oh. By the way, while we were there, five people qeued up for the two operational showers. I gave them a couple phone numbers they could use to complain. What a Radical I’ve become! (Where’s my marijuana joint, my highly compliant female and my “Bobby Rush: button? This seemd like sometrhing that acn be easily trconciled without all this SDS nonsense/
Sorry for all the typos. I can’t touch-type anyway and I really shouldn’t write anything that late at night (or early in the morning!)
sounds like a project for PDM. Rather than fool around with showerheads, maybe the shower room itself needs to be re-modeled? We have the $$ to do something like that, and it would be an enhancement to the RVCH.
In fairness to the PDM folks, I think they’re already working on plans to make repairs to the RV Clubhouse. I expect we’ll hear more about that soon – maybe at the Board Working session (?) Maybe we’ll also hear a proposal to restore the shower heads.
I’m bothered by this situation. Why were the shower heads cut off at wall level and sealed? If the showers are restored the community will have paid for the stolen shower heads and now the cost to replace the pipes. Surely there has to be a way to prevent this from happening again?
The showers should be available for Land Harbor and other Spanish Cove residents who want to use them.
I am speechless!
LOL Jenny, that’s a first
My local state park has numerous campgrounds with five shower houses that each contains six to ten shower stalls. To activate a shower, one has to push a metal button. There are no controls to adjust, the water temperature is warm – not hot, and has a duration of one minute. If the patron wants more water, another “push” of the button is required. It is somewhat inconvenient, but results in shorter showers.
I’m familiar with those shower heads too and think they should be on the table for discussion if the POASC decides to re-visit the who issue. I think it would be possible to devise a method of making the shower heads nearly theft proof too.
Maybe one or more of the Board members will take that ball and run with it. At any rate, I would hope that one of them will bring up a motion to rescind the previously approved motion to disable the showers, and restore status quo.
Yikes………….reminds me of living abroad, and paying to use toilets on the street corner. Mrs. W. said how would that stop a thief from stealing a shower head? I never have seen anyone taking a steam bath.
Perhaps coin operated showers would be a solution. Those devices probably decrease the time people spend in the shower and would likely stop the individual who tries to generate a steam bath.
Incidentally, Dick’s cost review results match almost identically the study that was done a few years ago on the swimming pool during the winter months.
You are required to shower before using the pool. Maybe we should stop this practice to save on propane costs or just shut down the pool?
I think having all (3) showers available makes sense also. If cost reduction is an issue, why not replace the hot showers for room tempature showers (a welcome relief during hot summer months). The propane would cost less, more (year round) SC residents might opt stay home instead of using the RV club house facilities to reduce their utility bills, and lower water/electricity bills are likely (who wants to take looong un-hot showers with the A/C cranked up??).
Instead of having only (1) functional shower why not have (3), but with no hot water. During the summer, it’s not all that uncomfortable. The propane would cost less, not as much water would be used, and it would encourage those year round SC residents who are overusing the facilities (to reduce thier utility bills) to stay home.
That’s an interesting proposal, C. Griswold, but let’s consider this: FY2008 RV Clubhouse water/sewer cost was $2409; Propane cost was $3109. Shutting down the water heater would likely have negligible effect on water/sewer cost, so we’re looking at the summertime effect of propane savings. So if we were to shut it off for four months, even that is not a savings of one-third of the cost, because we use less hot water in the summertime. So let’s estimate a maximum savings of about $1,000 a year. That’s approximately $0.055 (five and 1/2 cents) per month on your assessment, if my figures are correct (one dollar per month in assessments equals about $18,000 per year – $1,000 represents about $0.055).
I still believe we should simply restore the showers and get away from this divisive subject. What do you thinK?
Don’t overlook hot water needed for clothes washing.
Good point, Ben
That may not be as easy as you think. Did I not hear that some foam stuff was put in the pipes where the showerheads were removed? Might that not require new pipes?
Might be nice to find out who decided to perform that particular act of vandalism (Fob System may narrow it down) and get him/them to pay for the restoration (if the Board chooses to rescind its decision).
I have made my opinion known in a previoue post. To go to a shower room anywhere and see the showers capped off is just plain tacky. Please restore the missing shower heads and revoke the use of all amenities to the owner of the fob that allows vandalisim. It is beyond my understanding of why we spent a large amount of money on a security system if we don’t intend to enforce same security system. Replace the shower heads and stop cutting offenders slack. The fob won’t work after a certain time at the clubhouse. Is it the same at the RVCH? If not, why not. Another point….RVers pay assessments year round, not just when they are here. Where does anyone in Spanish Cove have a gripe with that? Seems to me the Cove is making a mint off the RVers without worrying about a few people taking a shower.
Why do we make changes/by-laws that effect everyone, but only a few are causing the problem?
Please take your blinders off and fix the problem. Having everyone being affected by removing the shower heads does not fix the problem.
The right thing has been done before on the vandalism, buy catching the ones doing the damage. (This was a good job by the staff)
The key fob system was put into place to allow us to use all the facilities without outsiders using the faciltities. That is why it was put into place.
Fix the problems of guest damaging our facilities.
We also have control of this problem. Do not let any of your guest use your fob. Be a great host and take them where they need to go and explain our rules and by-laws to them. The fobs are intended for owners only.
So it is down to two issues.
1. Always catch the people damaging the property.
2. Do not let your key fob leave your hands.
Dick, you get an A+. My family also would like to see the extra two $7 shower heads put back on. My family visits a few times a year, and the four of us prefer to use the RV clubhouse.
1. We like the walk in the morning, and say “Hello” to the neighbors, and enjoy looking at the tropical landscapes.
2. RV water heater has 6 gallon tank, and is hard to use for a family of four.
3. We use one fob, but four people have usage.
4. Durring the last visit I took the last shower as boys are not old enough to shave. Since all three of us can’t use one shower, the kids wait in the RV clubhouse untill I am done or untill their turn comes up. I would prefer to supervise them (they behave most of the time).
5. Everytime we have used the showers, other residence come in and want to use the showers too. Most of the time they leave, after they see a guy and two kids all jocking for one shower stall.
On this matter I absolutely agree with Mr. Junkins and cannot understand how the BOD could have taken the course of action they chose.
As usual, Dick, I have some comments. Some of what I have to say comes from comments made at the May 21 meeting.
1. I don’t think there will be a reduction in costs. If nine people want to take a shower, it will take more time to complete the project, but they will probably all still take a shower, just one at a time, using the same amount of water.
2. Although there are still some “true” RVs in Land Harbor, I would imagine most are park models or now, manufactured homes. Our 1980 park model had a bathroom about the same size as our guest bathroom that we have now in our manufactured home. We never ran out of hot water, even when company came.
3. I, for one, was thrilled after Hurricane Ivan that Land Harbor had showers at the RV clubhouse. We did not have electricity at our house, so no hot water. It was great to run over there for a quick shower. However, only once did I meet someone there. One shower in each bathroom was plenty at that time. At the May 21 meeting the Operations Manager said only six fobs were in use at the RV clubhouse. I find that hard to believe, since I would think at least that many would use just the toilet facilities during activities there. So if only six use the facility, what’s the big fuss over just one shower? Surely they can’t all be vying for use at one time. Of course, if that number is incorrect, I might adjust my thinking. I also appreciate having the laundry available. Although I have only used it a couple of times, it was nice to have it close by when my dryer went kaput.
4. Recently theft has been minimal, but theft of showerheads has been ongoing for a long time. I was doing some research yesterday in The Updates of 2005 and guess what? Showerheads were being replaced because someone had taken them. Shower curtains used to disappear the day after new ones were installed. Some years ago there was major damage to the restrooms and showers. The Manager also said that recently a man turned on all three showers to get up some steam for a steambath, I guess. Those who use the showers should treat them as they would their own homes, because, in reality they are using them as a substitute for their home facility.
All property owners must take responsibility for all of our amenities, for themselves and their guests. I agree the fob system should be able to determine who the vandals are. They should also be able to disable the individual’s fobs through the system so they won’t work for a period of time. Perhaps that will teach them what a wonderful facility they have.
If someone wants to use the shower, the bathroom, the pool, they should bring their fob with them. The rest of us should forget the “I’m a good guy because I live in Spanish Cove” attitude when it comes to the use of our amenities. Treat everyone without a fob the same: no fob, no entrance. Period.
Sally: Good logic re cost reduction, but I’d still like to see all three showers restored. Kinda like a swing set that accommodates three swings, but two are missing, so if three kids showed up to use them they’d have to stand in line. It’s set up for three – let’s have three available!
And as for RVs in Land Harbor – Yes, there are fewer than there were twenty years ago, but they’re still here and will be for the foreseeable future. Patty and I just drove around yesterday in the golf cart (we like to drive around Land Harbor because it reminds us how nice it is here and how insignificant some of the current pettiness is – plus we wanted to see the Century Plant over on Manuel Dr.) and we noticed quite a few RVs and commented how we miss having one once in a while. So for those folks at least – Keep the showers open!
Hear, hear Dick!