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While I am not in disagreement with anything Dick has said, or anyone else for that matter, I think it should be pointed out that if the Sewer is “closed off” and the property is subsequently sold the buyer may have to pay the infamous connection fee. This might make the lot more difficult to sell. I am not sure exactly how this next will work, but what would happen if the property line were vacated. This would now make the two lots one and one would be sewered so the 2nd sewer is not required. This is a county procedure and might even save some property taxes. I don’t know how that action would affect assessments, but I hope I gave you something to “chew on”
Thanks Dick, That’s pretty much the way I’ve been thinking. I guess its just more assurance that you are on the right track when others agree. I’m delivering my paperwork less the signature on Monday.
thanks again
Wendell
As a part time resident a few years ago, I was thinking of disconnecting sewer service; was told $150, and it would then cost $400 to reinstate……
Well, Wendell, if it were me and I didn’t plan to use the adjacent lot for a dwelling and don’t need sewer service on it, I would politely tell the sewer company to take a hike. And if they wanted to come out and disconnect (which means digging a hole and plugging the pipe) – at their expense, I would also insist that any work be performed in the right of way adjacent to the road and outside your property line, since you have not executed any agreement with them. The sewer company has been pretty bold in the recent past about entering onto folks’ property, but the agreement we sign gives them that right. If you don’t enter into an agreement with them, seems to me they would have to stay off your property, and you certainly wouldn’t be liable for a disconnect fee for services you never asked them to connect! Just a few thoughts…
I purchased my one lot almost two years ago in LH and was lucky enough to just have purchased the lot next to me. I thought everything was fine until I got a phone call and followup mail today. They are telling me that I have to sign their app for sewer service when I don’t want their service on that lot and then pay the $150. to disconnect. I’m told they can’t take it out of the previous owners name unless I apply for service. Neither of the other utilities had any problem with me not wanting their service. If i’m reading this correct and I sign the form then and only then am I giving them permission to come on my property to do whatever. My neighbor got a letter from them today about his adjoining lot. In his case the one lot had never had service so they told him what day they will be out to disconnect it unless he want to start paying. A legal friend of mine in another state told me I should get local counsel but he didn’t see any way I would be liable for the disconnect fee is I don’t sign their request for service. He said I should just send them a letter with a copy of the land deed to show that I’m the current owner and explain that I do not want their service on that lot. Then if they want to disconnect it would be at their expense.
any thoughts would be appreciated.
Wendell
I had a somewhat similar situation when I was selling my Park Model after placing a double-wide on an adjacent lot. I turned off electricity & water, and was given the same ridiculous song & dance from the sewer folks. Seemed to me at the time that the sewer & water people might be working together to share databases, so that the sewer folks would know when someone restored water service after having turned it off, and could then force the property owner to start paying again for sewer service. And a water turn-off order would also be sufficient to show that you’re not using the sewer, duh. Guess it was too much to expect in this Age of Technology. Ticked me off, though.
Luckily my property sold in a few months and I wasn’t out much. But we weren’t paying $54.50 then, either. Sorry you got stuck, JM.
Oh well, I am wrong again. I will deny I ever said it, but a stupid Covenant
Sorry, Dave, I have to go with Dick on this. If it was assessed, it will remain assessed until it changes hands and is no longer a developed lot. Unfortunately, unlike the other utilities, the sewer system cannot be shut off. They have to come to the lot and physically cap it off. I don’t know if the charge is reasonable or not. I’m sure they can’t take anyone’s word for it that the sewer is not being used.
JM & Dave: Depends on whether it was a Developed Lot while JM owned it.
Covenants Section 1.23 B under “Developed Lot” definition:
“Any Recreational Vehicle Lot that meets the definition of a Developed Lot shall remain a Developed Lot for the purpose of Assessment until the title to the Recreational Vehicle Lot (Developed Lot) is transferred at which time if said Recreational Vehicle Lot (Developed Lot) does not meet the
definition of a Developed Lot then the Recreational Vehicle Lot (Developed Lot) shall be reclassified in accordance with this Declaration.”
So this is likely bad news, since I’m assuming the lot was formerly considered “Developed” and the property did not change hands.
I have no authority to make any kind of final determination, but that’s what I read in the Covenants.
JM, for what it is worth. I believe if you spoke to Charlie the property could be removed from the assessment roles. The lot is contiguious to the one you live on, with no hookups obviously can not be lived on, and undeveloped. If you want you can tell him your approaching him was my idea so me, not you gets in trouble. I would be interested in hearing of my friends Dick and Sally have anything to say on this. Maybe for once they will agree with me….I HOPE
Back in October ,2008, there was a discussion on wheather or not the sewer co. could legally come on your property and cut your sewer pipe in the middle of your property, next to your slab. Leaglly or not, today I paid the cost to disconect the sewer on a lot, that I have owned and faithfully paid monthly bills on, since 2001. A year ago we purchased a nice park model from our next door neighbor. At which time we had no use of our lot with a Fifth-Wheel travel trailer. Immediately we decided to put this property up for sale, and moved into our next door new residence. We called the power company and had the power disconected with no problem. Next we called the water company and had the water cut off, also no problem. We had to sign a paper to get our garbage pick up canceled, by stating that we would not be living on the lot and putting out garbage. Finally contacting the sewer company, we were told out right that the only way to stop sewer billing was to pay them one hundred fifty dollars and they would come out and cut the pipe at my slab, not at the road. What to do?? We decided to continue paying the bill even with no water to flush down the pipe, hoping that our property would sell soon. Now a year later our property has not sold, We have paid over six hundred dollars in sewer bills and have as yet to sell our property. Got up yesterday morning and gave in. Went to the sewer co., signed a form to disconect, paid them one hundred fifty dollars and was told that when the sewer was conected back up, it would cost me or whomever I sold it to, four hundred dollars to hook back up. The deed was done today in about half hour. So goes the cost of living in our every day world, in paradise. Now if we could just buy our way out of the assessment. sc ghostwriter
I just checked the document I signed when I signed up for sewer, and as expected, BCSS has protected themselves – to a point. Here’s the language: “The consumer has and does give and grant to the Utility, its successors and assigns, a right of use and easement under, along and over the premises, and agrees that title to all property installed by the Utility shall remain in the Utility and may be removed at any time.”
The key issues to me are the easement, which is extensive, and who owns the sewer lines. According to Mr. Schaller, BCSS removed property belonging to the property owner. I don’t know how much pipe BCSS placed in the ground for property owners to hook up to, and I’m noit willing to speculate about it, but I doubt that BCSS ran the line to the home or RV hook-up point.
Looks like more investigation is in order. I think I’ve solved the easement issue. Question now is, “Who owns the pipe?”
Lots of good points. What seems simple ain’t so simple. A little birdie told me some investigation and clarification will be forthcoming.
Then I guess my suggestion is since they are digging up lines then they should dig it up on their property and put in a shut off valve instead of touching the property owners property this way we all avoid any potential conflict.
As there is no shut off valve on the sewer line, they cut the line and cap it next to the slab, as to prevent a health and bio hazard to the workers, so that if the property owner returns ands starts using the sewer line it is capped at the slab and doesn’t fill the entire line up with raw sewage becoming a health and bio hazard to workers as they reattach the line. The sign is a warning to the owners not to use their sewer line that it is capped.
Kathy raises a good issue, but as far as easements go the power company disconects you at the pole or meter (their meter) they do not destroy your wire, The water company can turn you off at the water valve, Again NOT touching the water line that You bought and paid for when installed, All other utilities turn off service and in NO WAY touch the land owners PRIVATE PROPERTY we Own the pipe from the connection to the street BCSS owns from the curb to the disposal plant. They have no legal right on anyones property with out approval from the owner. plain & simple, As for the signs again what right do they have placeing such a thing on the property? Who does it concern in the first place, is this an attempt to humiliate the property owner? for not paying their bill? And yes again what right do they have placing signs anywhere on private property? Just because they are a private business this gives them more right to our property than we the owners have?
I think Dave’s point is being missed. If BCSS feels it is necessary to cut the pipe, it should be done next to the road, not on private property next to the slab. In some cases I have noticed that the black water hose from the camper that is connected to the drain has been disconnected by BCSS, and then the ground is dug up and the pipe is cut underground. BCSS has no legal right to touch the personal property of the property owner. That is where a future lawsuit could be justified. A potential problem which Spanish Cove could be brought into as a co-defendant if it can be proven they allowed the destruction of property to happen and did not have security protect the property owners possessions.
It is my understanding that all utility companies have easement right to your property . Baldwin County Sewer is capping sewer lines because the people involved are not paying their sewer bills. It will cost you $400 to have the service reactivated. Poasc has no control over Baldwin County Sewer which is a private company.
Dave
Thanks for the clarification on that but I believe when lot owners return to their property who were away and unaware of this situation a big can of worms will be opened because private property is just that.
Dave, dry camping is not permitted in the Cove under our By-Laws, except under a temporary basis, which requires a permit from the POASC office. I think that the suggestion you contact Charlie Davison, the Operations Manager is a good one. He reviews postings on this Blog regularly and I am sure he has read of your concerns, which are very valid, no one wants POASC to be sued., and will be able to tell you what the situation is.
Not to mention these tactics they are using by cutting or filling pipes also cause another issue of who has to pay for the repair to have it hooked back up? this seems to be double dipping because i’m sure people are required to have a licensed plumber or sewer dept. make the connection again, Someone will have to repair this damage which is uncalled for in the first place. As stated above there are legal options with out causing property damage to owners property that the utilities have available to them, such as collection agencies or small claims court, but this is being totally disregarded by the sewer company, so now he not only gets to charge his high fees the property owner gets to pay him for the damages he did to your pipe.
Sally,
My point is this, I am not bound to sewer service, I have a motor home which i could dump at a dump station so does that mean if I decided to end my service with the sewer company they can come on my property and cut my pipe which is paid for by me on my property? I would also assume their easment is with in the 20 foot set back, but yet they are cutting off up next to the concrete slab which is surely the property owners property. To begin with there is no need to dig up a property owners lot, and do anything to the pipe, they can simply cap it without disturbing anything of the property owners. My point still being if a utility is not paid the utility company has different options available to them to collect payment, which in no way allows them to come on private property and touch anything that does not belong to them.
Weare fortunate? to have a grinder pump, I believe they have been required on new construction for some time now. Ridgewood S. has them, too.
Ben, BCSS would not be doing private work in Spanish Cove. None of us have grinder pumps. Just as we never know how many letters go out to property owners to collect assessments, fines, correct infractions, etc., we do not know what legal steps have been taken by BCSS. According to BCSS, when you sign the paperwork as a new customer, you agree to pay the bill and if you don’t, they have the authority to cut off the service. I assume (whoops!) that whatever we agreed to before BCSS, transferred over. I would also assume, there I go again, that the disconnect took place in the utility easement.
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maybe a call to Charlie will resolve this? BCSW does private work from time to time(such as grinder pumps, etc.)
They may be a privately owned company but that does not excuse the fact they are trespassing and damaging private property, I to am not an attorney but my wife has been in the legal field for years, my concern as i said is the Cove board does have some responsability in this, They provide security and this continues to happen on private property. No one has any right on any property owners property with out consent of the owner, let alone destroy property that has been paid for. That is where i feel the Cove is opening us up to a law suit, the sewer company has no authority trespassing on owners lots and in my opinion security should be enforcing the property owners right to that, by doing nothing I can see where the Cove along with the sewer dept could be held liable for allowing trespass and destruction of private property, and we the owners foot the bill for something that should never have been allowed to happen in the 1st. place.
Dave, the sewer company is a privately owned company. It is in no way affiliated with, or connected to POASC. I understand your question and point. It would seem to me that they are entering upon private property. I know that when my house was built I was responsible for the sewer line from the connection to the house to the tap. at the sewer line. I do not see how they can dig that up a sewer line on private property that does not belong to them. But, I am not a lawyer, and they are a private unregulated utility company. I have seen the signs at several lots. It appears to me that they are located on the owners property not on the POASC right of way so POASC can not control what they do.
My question is this and i am not quite sure where to post it but this should
do, Lately we have seen the sewer dept. going on PRIVATE PROPERTY and
digging up residents sewer lines, My concern is this. I believe the Cove
board maybe opening us up to a possible lawsuit, I know when i purchased my
lot it was with utilities installed and PAID for, this means what is on my
lot is my property is mine.Including the sewer pipes from my conection to
the street. I am concerned because I watched security drive by in broad
daylight while this was being done, It couldn’t be missed as they were
there over 2 hours digging up and filling in this persons sewer pipe right
up next to the owners RV. I question if this is trespassing and also
criminal damage to property! People pay fees there for security and as far
as I am concerned no one has the right to enter private property with out
the owners consent much less dig up the owners pipes. I also question why
this sewer dept is allowed to post their tacky signs on a private lot and
the board allows this practice to go on. I believe the board better discuss
these items with their legal dept. as i feel it is just a matter of time
before this ends up in a court room.
AARP Chapter 5251 will have voter registration available every Wednesday starting on August 6, 2008 from 11:00 a. m. to 2:00 p. m. at the Perdido Bay Library for the General Election on November 4, 2008. Voter registration is also available at the Balwin County Satellite Courthouse in Foley, Alabama. The cutoff date to register for voting is Friday October 24, 2008. Call Bob Miller at 251-961-3430if you have any questions about registering to vote.
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